TromboneChat

I just received an email from the AFM, as I am sure others have, just today.
The AFM is working with Congress and the airline industry for several years to resolve the difficult issue of carry-one musical instruments (not just trombones and bass trombones!).

For those of you who fly with your trombone, please take a few minutes to send your problems with carry-on trombones. Probably listing the specific airline might help, also.

I assume this is not just limited to AFM members; but, they are requesting feed-back from all, who fly with a trombone.

Here is the email address: [url=mailto:[email protected]][email protected][/url].

Thanks for you participation in the gathering of vital information for the traveling musicians.

Thanks Denny,

That include dealing with TSA on carry-on instruments?

thanks!  i'll pass this on to my girlfriend's string quartet.

Hi Denny - just thinking about Las Vegas (you going? We should meet up if you are) Whats the latest on carry one? I've a double gig bag on the way and would quite like to take two horns havent got an SKB case to put it in (going to get one when I get to the States because they want $400 to ship one to the UK!) I've got this neat arrangement with one of the kids I used to teach and he gets me 1st class tickets for American Airlines - I'm thinking that may make a difference cos theyve got loads of room behind each seat to store a whole trombone Choir if you wanted to. I guess I'll just have to ask, but wondered what the latest news is 'fore warned is fore armed'!  Didnt have any problems with New Orleans but I guess thats an eternity and liquid bombers away... Doug

Related.  Excepting commuter planes, most o'heads will accommodate a trombone; however, we flew on a 777 last week, at least on AA the bins are much shorter. 

Interesting, I think all the AA planes that fly Heathrow to LAX are 777

Howdy,


 The commuter planes are the biggest problem, because I usually have to take a connecting flight with a regional jet. You cant fit anything in the overhead. When I fly I generally gate check my horn, but I think they should let people with larger instruments board when the small children and handicap do.


Josh

Quote from: JimArcher on Apr 26, 2007, 05:26AMExcepting commuter planes, most o'heads will accommodate a trombone
That still leaves the problem of getting on the plane while there's still enough room in the bins.  On occasion, I have actually asked to be allowed to pre-board in order to make sure I could stow my horn.

Going through airport security is definitely interesting with a horn case, especially if you have an in-bell stand or other complicated-looking metal pieces in there.  Not unlike the experiences I've had with diving equipment.

Well I made Vegas fine. Good time was had by one and all, though much smaller this year due to the change from China to Vegas (opposite ends of the spectrum?!!). I flew to LA and drove up to Vegas from there. I flew AA via Miami going out. Aside from the fact that the lady at check in @ Heathrow tried to tell me I couldnt take the horn on, all went well, no one questioned me and it went through security like a dream. Had to 're-check' the horn at Miami but no one said anything. I only took the one horn (Bass) in a Bonna case. It sat on the floor behind my seat going to Miami, went in an overhead locker from Miami to LA. I bought an SKB case while I was in the States so put the Bonna in that and checked it for the return journey - safe and sound. I think AA are a good airline by all accounts.

I just got back from playing trombone on a church mission trip in Mexico. I flew Mexicana Airlines from Dallas/Ft. Worth to Mexico City to Vera Cruz and back again. I took my Conn 4h on as carry-on and stored it in the overhead bin.....no problem!

Shout out to Mexicana Airlines......they still serve meals!

I've been flying a lot with my horn.  I've learned a couple things:  First, if anyone hassles you, talk to someone else.  Eventually you will find someone that sympathizes.

Also, I've found that if I claw my way up to the front of the queue, I can get my horn in the overheads before everyone else.  That way, it's just up to other people having to deal with my horn being there.  I know it's selfish, but it sure beats having to search every single frikkin' bin for a spot for my gigantic Getzen hard case...

Quote from: Paul Fleming on Jul 13, 2007, 07:50AMI've been flying a lot with my horn.  I've learned a couple things:  First, if anyone hassles you, talk to someone else.  Eventually you will find someone that sympathizes.

Also, I've found that if I claw my way up to the front of the queue, I can get my horn in the overheads before everyone else.  That way, it's just up to other people having to deal with my horn being there.  I know it's selfish, but it sure beats having to search every single frikkin' bin for a spot for my gigantic Getzen hard case...

Right on Paul!

I travel from time to time with my Bach Model 1 Alto, and I simply explain that the horn is worth more than I am and it's not going anywhere but with me. A little drama doesn't hurt - there's never been a problem before on your airline - let me speak to your supervisor...

The only thing I'd add to the conversation is to always use self-serve checkin - ETicket, etc. Make the "problem" the gate staff's, their job is to get you on the airplane.

df

I had to check my horn on a flight from Denver to Bolivia and back, with a stopover in Miami each way.  It was literally one of the most painful and scariest things I've ever done, and I will NEVER check my horn again.

I did a concert tour of china/mongolia last new years. I had 12 flights in china, and several bus rides. I could always fit my horn in the over head. There were a few times that there wasn't space in the bins so I had them store it ALONE in a storage closet that the crew used for jackets. I might also add that the cello's all had seats in 1st class. When I say that, I mean the actual instruments were sitting more comfortably than the players. Also, never let the crew take your horn from you. I always said I would take it if they didn't mind.

That was sold out... The Great hall in Bejing.

Frontier Airlines.  Hadn't used them for 30+ years (back in the pilot yellow wool scarf days?).  Went from Portland to Denver to Dallas-Ft Worth & back last two weeks.  They use Airbus 318s - the large o'head bins will easily accommodate a trombone case, even a bass, I think.  I took a Pro Tec, they even noted in their file that I was bringing an instrument.  No hassle, no problem at all even in a full plane (except at my age getting the thing up there...). 

I recommend flying with this guy:
http://s154.photobucket.com/albums/s243/ShareElias/?action=view&current=cargo.flv

I have taken my King 606 on board Northwest and American flights in its plastic form fitting case without issue and it has fit into the overhead bins on MD Super 80, Embraer, Boeing 717, and 737, aircraft so far. I did gate check on one flight on a small prop plane.

US Air is batting a thousand!! I just returned from two weeks of teaching at Eastman, and they lost my suitcase going and returning. My 88H was in a MB lightweight case that always fits in overheads except for regional jets. I gate checked the horn in Rochester for a flight to Philadelphia on a regional jet, asking the flight attendant to ask the handlers to put it on top of the pile. When I picked it up at the gate and looked inside, the bell looked like a beer can that had been flattened and then pulled apart to its original shape. The Bonna case is very strong and the horn does not move when it's inside. Plus, I had a Best Brass practice mute in the bell. The slide was not affected at all. The only way that this sort of damage could have been done was to drop or throw the case with great force. I'm not sure any case could have protected against this, but I'll never know. By the way, the case shows absolutely no damage.
No more regional jets for me.

I have been on 8 flights with my shires bass in a MB hard case on American and Continental in the last few weeks with only one minor problem. All were leaving from columbus, OH, so each trip was 1 short connection flight, and a flight out of a hub each way. Mostly on Airbus planes (a few 737's, though). 

There was one regional flight on Continental (on a CRJ 200 plane) that the overhead bins were too small for the case (not by much though.... I think the chronkite bag that splits in two would have probably fit). I was able without much effort to let the flight attendant put my trombone into an open seat on the plane.

I highly recommend reading Steve Ferguson's tips on flying with a trombone (at www.hornguys.com).

I have had many gate agents say "You will have to gate check that", but I always politely refuse and say that it has always fit in the overhead bins before. Up until last week that was true. Having the backpack style case helps alot (I don't think they even see the case until I am well past them). I also usually bend the boarding rules, and either go with the people who need assistance/extra time boarding or with the first coach boarding group (regardless if I am seated in that section or not). I usually try to sit in the area of the plane that boards first as well.

Might be a good idea to start a sticky topic with what airline have been good/difficult to deal with. Also one with the model numbers of planes that fit cases  would be a great resource. 

I'm flying to the states with two horns and a bunch of mutes.
What is the best way to pack multiple mutes? (I don't have a mute bag.)

Quote from: alclarke on Feb 24, 2008, 08:16PMI'm flying to the states with two horns and a bunch of mutes.
What is the best way to pack multiple mutes? (I don't have a mute bag.)


I would send them UPS. They are insured, you can track them too. Also, once you go over your alloted number of bags, things can start getting real expensive with the air lines.

The problem is that I arrive in Miami 12.15am and I'm on the boat at Ft Lauderdale that same morning. I'm thinking about bubble wrapping them and keeping them in my luggage (with a fragile sticker on the bag!)

You could always buy an extra seat on the plane for the horns. It it not going to be cheap, but it will be less expensive than buying 2 new horns.

I know it won't be cheap! It would be exorbitant!

I'm not sure bubble wrap will survive the air pressure at high altitudes
Is there a way you can pack your mutes in a (at least partially) hardshell suitcase with some cloths around them?  I'm pretty sure you can check two bags w/out any charges, and the charge for an extra bag is a lot lower than for an extra seat...

Quote from: ilanbone on Mar 02, 2008, 10:33PMI'm not sure bubble wrap will survive the air pressure at high altitudes

I've used bubble-wrap in checked baggage on trips to Denver.  Airline cabins are pressurized to the equivalent to several thousand feet in altitude.  Bubble-wrap works in Denver too...there is no high-altitude version.

If you are looking for ideas on the best way to travel with your horn. Check out Steve Ferguson's post on his site, www.hornguys.com. Here's a link to the page. He has some good ideas that i've used with success.

http://www.hornguys.com/cases.htm#travel_tips

On the boat - you doin a ship gig?

I've been doing a few of those and as far as mutes go, here is how i pack:
stuff a straight in the bell, plunger around that....

of course if you have a hard case, this won't work.  pack them in your bag and wrap your clothes around the mutes.

on most ship gigs i end up not using mutes anyway... most guys don't bring their's, so you end up using plunger and straight in various configuraTIONS to simulate cup, hat, bucket, etc...  and if you need, you can just order some form WWBW  or your local music store.  this 'll be cheaper than mailing them overseas. 

which ship you going to?

Zac

Oh yeah, fyi, i have a copy of a letter somewhere that I use when travelling  with the airlines.  I can post a Pdf of it somewhere if no one has this and can tell me where i could post it.  It's a TSA letter we got in 2003 i think when the cruise line i worked for was having issues with guys getting their gear messed up.  It all still depends on the airline of course...

 oh yeah... always ask to get on with the pre-boarding ( i think someone else brought that up.)  be nice and courteous and explain that it fits in an overhead and politely ask to speak with someone else or get a transfer to another flight if you get agro for it.  I can't stress politeness enough.  They can have you arrested or detained now-a-days for getting rude with airline hosts, i kid you not.  I've seen it happen and almost had it happen to me... so be nice

oh yeah... i just noticed this is an old thread and i am replying to time sensitive stuff.... i'm a dummy

Zac

My instructor and another student of his have a case that resembles a golf bag.  That, or it really is a golf bag...  I forget, but the company make golf bags and the case apparently works.  It is really cool because it has two legs to hold it up too.  If you know the name of the company it would be helpful to list it for me and others...

Quote from: nghtmare007 on Apr 18, 2008, 10:06PMMy instructor and another student of his have a case that resembles a golf bag.  That, or it really is a golf bag...  I forget, but the company make golf bags and the case apparently works.  It is really cool because it has two legs to hold it up too.  If you know the name of the company it would be helpful to list it for me and others...


Probably Wolfpack

Travelers with a trombone... Read this: http://www.mercurynews.com/valley/ci_9343474

Yes, American Airlines is now charging $15 for the first checked bag, and $25 for the second. Other airlines are sure to follow.

What will this mean? My guess is that EVERYONE who flies will now cram everything they have into their carry-on bag and try to take as much on board as possible. This will finding space for an item like a bass trombone (which I have been carrying on lately) nearly impossible.

Further, I can assume that, because people will carry more on (making the overhead space more crowded) the airlines will start carefully enforcing size restrictions on carry-on baggage. Again, this is a nightmare for a trombonist. Oddly shaped bags won't go over well.

Another unfriendly move by airlines trying to squeeze more out the customer.

Now that is REALLY bad news, Matt.

Time to start playing the pocket trumpet.

My trumpet player very occasionally uses one of these. I glance round at him and it looks as if he's playing his nose.



(That isn't him, BTW - my trumpet player's nose is MUCH bigger)

Sounds like it really sucks for those Bach Stradivarius cases.  They are so bulky and don't even have a lot of space inside of them!

I have a solution for everything!  I bought a MV 42 Case and took out the mouthpiece holder box so that I could put my 42BO, 42T and even my smaller horns in if I like.

Take a look at the case!  Small and worth it!

Hi all! First post for me...

Look, as an airline captain for Delta Air Lines, I wish more musicians would ask to say "Hi" to the Captain when boarding. If I know there is a fellow musician (especially lower brass player) I will make sure we accommodate your valuable instrument. Flight attendants don't have the appreciation for the importance of your axe generally to help you like they should. If you see me standing at the gate podium looking all important and everything (hehehehe) just come up and introduce yourself. I'll make sure right then we accommodate your instrument.

Also, you might ask the gate agent if you can board early to protect your instrument. Hey, it doesn't hurt to ask, right? Tell them you're with the Atlanta Symphony or something...Lastly, if things go south and they're trying to make you check it, you MUST ask to touch base with the Captain at that point...just try to avoid that last minute, frantic scramble. It is unacceptable to put your 'bone' in danger down below!!!

Good luck!

Hi Scot

Welcome to the forum. Now everyones going to be flying Delta! The rest of the pilots in the fleet will be confused why passengers keep asking them if they play the trombone!!

Alas I always fly American because of a deal I have with them!

Good to have you on board!.. Doug

Arent't we trombonists far better off anyway than our esteemed colleagues from the string or even woodwind department if it comes to air travel problems?

I mean, a) the instruments are far less sensitive, not just concerning mechanical damage but also toward air pressure, temperature and humidity changes; b) compared to a decent violin, cello or bassoon, they are rather inexpensive. I dare not imagine what you go through with a double bass, let alone a harp...

Up until now, I hadn't considered carrying my bass bone on; at the outside, I considered making a cheap plywood/styrofoam case as a second layer around the 'real' case, but more to prevent cosmetic damages to the latter than for anything else. Stick a TSA lock on it and that's it. What's wrong with that approach?

Regards
Radbert

Quote from: Lenze on Oct 20, 2008, 06:20PMArent't we trombonists far better off anyway than our esteemed colleagues from the string or even woodwind department if it comes to air travel problems?

I mean, a) the instruments are far less sensitive, not just concerning mechanical damage but also toward air pressure, temperature and humidity changes; b) compared to a decent violin, cello or bassoon, they are rather inexpensive. I dare not imagine what you go through with a double bass, let alone a harp...

Up until now, I hadn't considered carrying my bass bone on; at the outside, I considered making a cheap plywood/styrofoam case as a second layer around the 'real' case, but more to prevent cosmetic damages to the latter than for anything else. Stick a TSA lock on it and that's it. What's wrong with that approach?

Regards
Radbert

Well,
http://news.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=08/10/19/1618259&from=rss

Now, I can't imagine anyone being so unsubtle as to walk away with a trombone outside its case.  But I've had TSA "repack" my bags.  Things that fit in with no pressure (in nice clear bags, as suggested on the flying sites) sprang out at my destination.  How much are you willing to bet that the inspector puts your horn back into its careful packing the way it was in the first place?

It's a rock and a hard place situation.  If it weren't for the inspections I'd be happy to do as I did in the old day, and pack my case VERY carefully and check it.  That was the one bag that never seemed to get lost (but it LOOKED like a trombone.)  If I could afford it now, I'd get something I wouldn't mind checking at the gate and follow CaptScotty's advice.  The only thing I have, though is for earlier checking, and I dread that.

Quote from: boneagain on Oct 20, 2008, 06:29PMWell,
http://news.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=08/10/19/1618259&from=rss

But I've had TSA "repack" my bags.  Things that fit in with no pressure (in nice clear bags, as suggested on the flying sites) sprang out at my destination.  How much are you willing to bet that the inspector puts your horn back into its careful packing the way it was in the first place?

Well, the trombone cases I had so far were so snuggly form-fitted that they would only allow insertion of the 'bone's corpus one way anyway... ok, he might bend the slide. If he were really really insensitive and moronic.

Is it hard to claim damages from the TSA for damaged goods?

Just imagine the difficulty of traveling with a 15k Alexander tuba!

So a rock solid hard case is not enough?  Sad that the "ramp rats" do not know how to treat anything marked "Fragile",   

Quote from: boneagain on Oct 20, 2008, 06:29PMWell,
http://news.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=08/10/19/1618259&from=rss

Now, I can't imagine anyone being so unsubtle as to walk away with a trombone outside its case.  But I've had TSA "repack" my bags.  Things that fit in with no pressure (in nice clear bags, as suggested on the flying sites) sprang out at my destination.  How much are you willing to bet that the inspector puts your horn back into its careful packing the way it was in the first place?

It's a rock and a hard place situation.  If it weren't for the inspections I'd be happy to do as I did in the old day, and pack my case VERY carefully and check it.  That was the one bag that never seemed to get lost (but it LOOKED like a trombone.)  If I could afford it now, I'd get something I wouldn't mind checking at the gate and follow CaptScotty's advice.  The only thing I have, though is for earlier checking, and I dread that.




I almost never check my horn at the ticket counter, no matter what case I have used to store the horn. If I do check the luggage at the ticket counter, I tell the TSA agent taking bags that I would like to be present when/if they search the case. If they are feeding the conveyor belt, then hopefully you have good karma.

The best luck I have had is the SKB trombone case.I pack the case such that the horn will absolutely not move inside the case, then I carry it with me through security and gate check the horn at the plane. It is too big to fit in most overheads, even the large planes.

I am glad captscotty chimed in! From now on, if the flight attendants give me trouble I will ask to talk to the captain. Though I wonder, captscotty, will all pilots be as understanding as you, or will some think you are wasting their time?

Quote from: JBledsoe on Nov 18, 2008, 01:28PM
I almost never check my horn at the ticket counter, no matter what case I have used to store the horn. If I do check the luggage at the ticket counter, I tell the TSA agent taking bags that I would like to be present when/if they search the case. If they are feeding the conveyor belt, then hopefully you have good karma.


I use the SKB golf case and check it at the ticket counter. Like you, I tell the person at the counter I would like to be there when my luggage is inspected. The ticket agent usually will make a fuss until I show them the documents from the TSA that say it is my right to be there and I ask for their I.D. number .

johngsteel... You shouldnt pack the horn so tight that it 'absolutely will not move' inside the case - you need a cushioning effect within to absorb the impact (should it occur). Thats not to say ot should be loose. Doug Yeos advice still stands if you read the article on his website mentioned earlier.

If you want a really good case to check (without putting the case within a case like the SKB golf) then try the 'Tank' cases (available from slidebone.com). They have done all the hard work and thought for you and the tenor case is no bigger than the old King coffin cases and a darn site lighter and they have wheels as well. I would be happy checking these cases... Though I always carry on if I can - theres no substitute.

Kindest regards... Doug

Quote from: second.chance on Nov 19, 2008, 12:09AMjohngsteel... You shouldnt pack the horn so tight that it 'absolutely will not move' inside the case - you need a cushioning effect within to absorb the impact (should it occur). Thats not to say ot should be loose. Doug Yeos advice still stands if you read the article on his website mentioned earlier.

If you want a really good case to check (without putting the case within a case like the SKB golf) then try the 'Tank' cases (available from slidebone.com). They have done all the hard work and thought for you and the tenor case is no bigger than the old King coffin cases and a darn site lighter and they have wheels as well. I would be happy checking these cases... Though I always carry on if I can - theres no substitute.

Kindest regards... Doug

Well stated and fully in concurrence, Doug.   

A bit of free space will help, too tight is not right.  (if it doesn't fit then you gotta git?) 

Just a horror story to spread around:  Right after 9/11, my trombone choir went to the Big XII trombone conference and a bud and I flew.  I told him to NOT lock his case but he did away and then he checked it as baggage while I brought mine to go on as carry on and they put it under the plane with wheel chairs and such.  His was broken open by TSA and searched.  Not so big of a deal BUT they took the mouthpiece out of the holder for it and then just laid it in the case.  By the time it got to Lubbock there were dents EVERYWHERE from the mouthpiece bouncing around his case against his horn.  A very nice Shires bass too.  He put in a claim and never heard anything back.  So moral of the story... don't lock your case and use bring your horn as carry on and have them bag check it.
-Z

[Mouthpiece Mayhem]

Btw do they oppose carrying a bass mouthpiece on?

After all, you could bash someone's head in with it...

I wouldn't put it past TSA to take your mouthpiece.  I took one with me just to buzz in the hotel room.  I was stopped and my bag searched.  They did the whole routine advising me of what wasn't allowed, etc. and asked if I had anything to tell them.  I said nope and then realized they were x-raying my mouthpiece. 

I told them what it was and they seemed relieved.  I made it there and back with the mouthpiece but would not guarantee they wouldn't take it next time.

Ive never had a problem with my mouthpiece, and I usually have several in my carry on.




Some smaller airports where they rarely see musical instruments might search your bag, but if you tell them its a trombone mouthpiece they understand.

Quote from: second.chance on Nov 19, 2008, 12:09AMIf you want a really good case to check (without putting the case within a case like the SKB golf) then try the 'Tank' cases (available from slidebone.com).

The Tank bass trombone case exceeds the checked baggage size limit of 62 linear inches (=length+width+height) imposed at least by American and United by at least three inches, depending on if you count the feet or not. This means that American charge you an additional fee of $150 flights and United, of $175.

I have not found any bass case at all to stay below that limit, much less one that appears dafe enough to check it. The Getzen/Edwards case might go through with a little haggling...

Quote from: Lenze on Dec 05, 2008, 03:06PMThe Tank bass trombone case exceeds the checked baggage size limit of 62 linear inches (=length+width+height) imposed at least by American and United by at least three inches, depending on if you count the feet or not. This means that American charge you an additional fee of $150 flights and United, of $175.
Looks like it would be better to FedEx the thing straight to your hotel then. Surely it wouldn't be $150 anywhere in the US anyway.

I just got back from Bogota this Wednesday. Off walks this lady with a string instrument over her shoulder that looked like a mandolin body (kind of round too) and about a 4 foot neck!!! Could it have been a Sitar? (sp. -1)(It was in a soft case) I was very glad to see that she wasn't hassled with her valuable instrument.

I still ask our gate agents before every flight to make me aware of any carry-on instruments, and give these musicians VIP treatment. Hell, we let people carry on all sorts of stuff...pets, HUGE garment bags with wedding dresses, etc, etc...a musician's life-blood needs the same respect.

(...heading to Bogota again tomorrow, then Paris on Monday PM...if anyone is coming...)

Scotty