Which mouthpiece to settle on

[DanZ]

Hi All,

I am relatively new to playing trombone (but have quite a bit of experience with other instruments). I am currently playing a Yamaha 646, which is Bb/F and has a .525 main bore as I understand it. I have a little collection of mouthpieces:

Yamaha 45C2
Faxx 7C
Yamaha 48
Jupiter 5GB

Since I got the 646 I have mostly been playing it with the Yamaha 48, which for me I feel sounds the best. With this mouthpiece I am pretty confident with a range from F2-F4, however my lips tire fairly quickly, and I start to struggle with the top few notes.

I decided to try out the other mouthpieces and found that with the 45C2 i can go several notes higher than F4, and the upper register is more secure. However, note attack in the lower register is a bit more flakey. Playing the 7C is more secure than the 48 up to around F#4, but note attack int he lower register is also not as strong as with the 48. My lips do not seem to tire as quickly with either of these mouthpieces.

i did give the 5GB a try, and found that for me it was not that different to the 48, which surprised me a bit.

I feel i need to settle on one mouthpiece, the question is do I go with the 48, and hope that in time as lip strength builds my endurance will improve. Or use something like the 7C, for a while as my lips develop.

I hope this makes some sense.

Dan Z

[Posaunus]

I feel i need to settle on one mouthpiece, the question is do I go with the 48, and hope that in time as lip strength builds my endurance will improve.

I think the Yamaha 48 is your best compromise for a 0.525" bore trombone.
Stick with it - the range will come and your sound and endurance will improve.

[Of course other TromboneChatters will disagree, and promote their favorite mouthpieces. ]

[AtomicClock]

Spend 5 years on the 48, then reassess.

[UATrombone]

Spend 5 years on the 48, then reassess.

This ^
But, I suppose that 2-3 years will be enough.

[hyperbolica]

I tend to agree that it's easier to practice a large mouthpiece to play range and endurance than to practice good sound into a small mouthpiece. But as with everything else, there are limits.

So of those mentioned, the 48 is probably the best option.

If someday you want the benefit of a safari without the time and expense of a safari, get with Doug Elliott and he will fix you up. Rim that fits your face - 100-106, a cup that fits the sound - D-F, and a shank to fit your horn, say a 4. You wont want anything else.

[captain]

Sorry for this dumb question:

What does that penultimate sentence mean? 100-106? D-F? 4?

Is there a primer on trombone mouthpieces somewhere?? I've searched high & low. My search-fu must be on the fritz, despite using both Brave-search and Googull-sirch. There HAS to be a "this is everything you need to know about trombone mouthpieces" web page. no?

[harrisonreed]

Sorry for this dumb question:

What does that penultimate sentence mean? 100-106? D-F? 4?

Is there a primer on trombone mouthpieces somewhere?? I've searched high & low. My search-fu must be on the fritz, despite using both Brave-search and Googull-sirch. There HAS to be a "this is everything you need to know about trombone mouthpieces" web page. no?

DE's mouthpieces use different interchangeable cup depths and rim diameters. 100-106 are the most common tenor sized rims he has (in inches, 100=1.00"), and the letters are the cups. The last number is probably the shank number, where a "4" is made for .525" bore instruments.

His system can open your eyes to the general inadequacy of nearly every other mouthpiece maker's system of "cup depth is tied to cup/rim diameter". With old school designs, as the cup gets deeper, the rim gets wider.

But DE has now been around for a very long time. It's no longer some fantastic new concept. Just a fantastic one

Also there are no definitive sources of info on mouthpieces -- everyone is different and responds better with different setups.

[UATrombone]

Sorry for this dumb question:

What does that penultimate sentence mean? 100-106? D-F? 4?

Is there a primer on trombone mouthpieces somewhere?? I've searched high & low. My search-fu must be on the fritz, despite using both Brave-search and Googull-sirch. There HAS to be a "this is everything you need to know about trombone mouthpieces" web page. no?

1. 100-106 - rim sizes, D-F - cups, 4 - shank for medium bore, which should fit cup (D4, F4 etc.). It's Doug Elliott system numbers and letters.
2. There isn't ONE page for "everything to know" but there are a couple of people who are able to give you the best direction in mouthpiece search. One of them is Doug Elliott.

[Posaunus]

What does that penultimate sentence mean? 100-106? D-F? 4?

Is there a primer on trombone mouthpieces somewhere?? I've searched high & low. My search-fu must be on the fritz, despite using both Brave-search and Googull-sirch. There HAS to be a "this is everything you need to know about trombone mouthpieces" web page. no?

No. There is no such primer on mouthpieces.
But you might want to learn something about Doug Elliott's mouthpiece system.
I wish I had known this several years ago before falling into the (fun but expensive) mouthpiece rabbit hole.

Check out Doug's Website - you'll learn a lot:
http://www.dougelliottmouthpieces.com/series.html
http://www.dougelliottmouthpieces.com/options.html
http://www.dougelliottmouthpieces.com/tenortrb.html

[BGuttman]

Just a note: "penultimate" means "next to last". Meaning, the penultimate mouthpiece may lead to a [better] ultimate mouthpiece. This is probably pure malarkey.

Working with someone who understands embouchure can help point you to a mouthpiece that works best. But you have to be willing to learn and adjust. I had a friend who went to Doug Elliott to work on a bad percussive attack. Doug recommended something and he decided he didn't like it. So I'd bet he still has the percussive attacks and whatever limitations he used to have. Maybe a little less since he took a bunch of lessons with another Chat member who worked with him. [Names withheld to protect the guilty.]

When you are first starting, constantly changing mouthpieces in search of the "ultimate" can be counterproductive. You need to establish your embouchure and that's best done on a single mouthpiece that you learn to work with. Once you know what you can and can't do based on mouthpiece limitations it is then that you can see if a change can help. There are a bunch of mouthpieces that seem to work for beginning players: Bach 7C, Bach 6½AL, Yamaha 48, Schilke 50, etc. Get one of these and build your playing as far as it can go. Then think of change. Some say "use it until the plating wears off". Not a bad set of advice.