Marcinkiewicz size questions

[Macbone1]

I read that the Marcinkiewicz sizing system is "different from everyone else's". I'm looking for a Marcinkiewicz Symphony tenor piece comparable in size to a DE G or G+ with G8 shank, or between a Bach 4G and 5G.

Anyone know enough about the sizing to recommend one or two choices please?

[tbonesullivan]

The specs for all of their mouthpieces are listed on their website. Many of their mouthpiece match up pretty well to the Bach standard, but many others don't at all. They have several mouthpieces that fall between the 5G and 4G in rim size, but they have slightly shallower cups than the Marcinkiewicz 5G.

Now, if you pretty much know what you want in DE specs, why not just get a mouthpiece from Doug Elliott? The Marcinkiewicz pieces, like Schilke mouthpieces, look to mostly have been custom designs that were assigned somewhat arbitrary numbers, with specs that vary all over the place. I don't think you'll be able to do any kind of comparison in their line that would make it easy to match up a DE G / G+ with a G8 shank.

[Posaunus]

I read that the Marcinkiewicz sizing system is "different from everyone else's". I'm looking for a Marcinkiewicz Symphony tenor piece comparable in size to a DE G or G+ with G8 shank, or between a Bach 4G and 5G.

Anyone know enough about the sizing to recommend one or two choices please?

Marcinkiewicz's specifications make it a bit hard to compare to, say, Bach's.
If you don't want to get a Doug Elliott setup, and need this information, why not contact Marcinkiewicz directly?

I did find an old comparison table that I've attached. It may be useful. Or it may be apples vs. oranges.

[Macbone1]

Thanks! I was leaning toward a 9BS anyway.
I still might contact them.

[tbonesullivan]

Marcinkiewicz's specifications make it a bit hard to compare to, say, Bach's.
If you don't want to get a Doug Elliott setup, and need this information, why not contact Marcinkiewicz directly?

I did find an old comparison table that I've attached. It may be useful. Or it may be apples vs. oranges.

I remember once finding a Marcinkiewicz document / diagram that explained the design of their mouthpiece blank, but have never been able to find it again. The only mouthpiece I have from them is a Phil Teel EBT2, which is definitely a great commercial mouthpiece, though almost too "zippy" for most other uses. They also have a Bill Reichenbach mouthpiece with a 28.72mm cup diameter, which interestingly is quite a bit bigger than his current Schilke signature with a 28.17mm cup.

Anyway, to the TO, I would also say to contact Marcinkiewicz.

[Grahambone]

I am a former Marcinkiewicz employee and probably the best Marcinkiewicz spec translator. They really are a series of custom mouthpieces organized by cup depth instead of rim size. The rim contours vary a lot between models, so the "specs" are correct and taken from CAD drawings, but some of them feel way different than what one would expect.

Sounds like you are looking for a something like the ET1 Peebles. The 9 has a rim similar to a 4G, but is much shallower and not a great match to a lot of large bore horns.

Cheers,
Graham

[Posaunus]

I am a former Marcinkiewicz employee and probably the best Marcinkiewicz spec translator. They really are a series of custom mouthpieces organized by cup depth instead of rim size. The rim contours vary a lot between models, so the "specs" are correct and taken from CAD drawings, but some of them feel way different than what one would expect.

Cheers,
Graham

Thanks Graham. I was hoping that you'd weigh in!

I like some of the Marcinkiewicz trombone mouthpieces, and have learned that they are certainly not Bach clones, so there are often not any relevant "Bach equivalents."

If you want anal-compulsive sizing, with the gamut of rim diameters and cup depths, take a look at the wide range of (excellent) Josef Klier "Exclusive" mouthpieces, made in Germany.

[JohntheTheologian]

I play a Marc 4 on my large bore Yamaha 643II and it works very well.

You're correct that their specs are different. I play all Marc mps except for my euphonium. I haven't found one that works well on that. I play a UMI/CKB 5G which is a little deeper than a Bach on my euph.

The 4 is larger than a Bach 5G, but I haven't compared it to Bach 4G. Very comfortable for me.

I play an 8H which is about a 6 1/2 AL on my small bore Conn 48H and it works well. I also have a large shank 8H which I occasionally use on my large bore when everything is in the upper range.

I play a 3 and a GR, which they have renamed a 1 1/2 on my bass. Both are nice and have the same rim, differing only in cup depth. I've thought about getting a 9 or 9B because they are listed as having the same rim as the 4.

Their rims are different than Bach's, etc and comfortable to me.

[izMadman]

but if you're looking for something around a DE G or G+ with a G8 shank, maybe aim for a tenor piece that fits between the Bach 4G and 5G range.

[Grahambone]

I've thought about getting a 9 or 9B because they are listed as having the same rim as the 4.

I can confirm that the rim from the Model 4 came from the Model 9 program. Those should feel pretty similar on your face.

The Model 9 is a great mouthpiece for someone that needs a wider rim diameter, but doesn't want to sound to woofy on small bore.

The Model 9B is an odd duck. Almost like a flugelhorn mouthpiece design scaled up for a trombone. It has a deep V cup. I find it a little squirrelly for my playing.

Graham

[claf]

I have a 9B and I love it.
I use 3 mouthpieces on small bore: Marc. 9B, DE XT N103/C+/D2 and GB 4C. The 9B is my favorite, but they all work well and serve their purpose.

[Macbone1]

Thanks for sharing your experiences.
My new 9BS should arrive tomorrow, looking forward to trying it.

[JohntheTheologian]

I've thought about getting a 9 or 9B because they are listed as having the same rim as the 4.

I can confirm that the rim from the Model 4 came from the Model 9 program. Those should feel pretty similar on your face.

The Model 9 is a great mouthpiece for someone that needs a wider rim diameter, but doesn't want to sound to woofy on small bore.

The Model 9B is an odd duck. Almost like a flugelhorn mouthpiece design scaled up for a trombone. It has a deep V cup. I find it a little squirrelly for my playing.

Graham

Graham, from your experience what are your thoughts on the 9 as an alternative to an 8H on a large bore-- Yamaha 643II-- when needing a mp that favors the upper range and the 9B as a euphonium mp?

Over on the euphonium chats, I've never run into anyone who uses a Marc 9B, but if it's a deep V cup, I'm wondering if it might work well.

[claf]

I don't think the 9B is available with a large shank.
And its cup shape is definitely not similar to a euphonium cup (not deep enough), but you could always try.

[slidefunk]

Graham, from your experience what are your thoughts on the 9 as an alternative to an 8H on a large bore-- Yamaha 643II-- when needing a mp that favors the upper range and the 9B as a euphonium mp?

Over on the euphonium chats, I've never run into anyone who uses a Marc 9B, but if it's a deep V cup, I'm wondering if it might work well.

I played a modified 9B for a while. In my opinion it's a bit too shallow for a euph. I would compare it to a Bach 5G or a Wick 6BS but with a wider, V shaped cup. If that's what you are looking for, go for it!

I actually have a sneaking suspicion that the best euphonium mouthpiece Marc offers might be the 1.5G. If you don't mind the rim size, I think the depth and throat are ideal for the instrument. I'd like to try it out someday.

[JohntheTheologian]

I played a modified 9B for a while. In my opinion it's a bit too shallow for a euph. I would compare it to a Bach 5G or a Wick 6BS but with a wider, V shaped cup. If that's what you are looking for, go for it!

I actually have a sneaking suspicion that the best euphonium mouthpiece Marc offers might be the 1.5G. If you don't mind the rim size, I think the depth and throat are ideal for the instrument. I'd like to try it out someday.

i own a 1 1/2, a 3 and a 4 and use them regularly on bass and tenor. I've never found that any of them work really well on my euph, although I might give the 3 another try. I currently play a CKB/UMI 5G on my euph. It's a little deeper than a Bach 5G. It's comfortable and works well, but the rim is a little wider than I would really prefer.

[Cmillar]

I had posted this some time ago in another related thread:

re: 9B (developed for the late Bob Stroup, top call Edmonton/Western Canadian jazz player who once played in the Woody Herman band back in the '60's, originally from Detroit. Taught at Grant MacKewan College and was lead trombone for all the international TV shows produced by the late music director/pianist Tommy Bandks)

"I knew Bob Stroup when he was alive and living in Edmonton and would do some gigs with him, driving up from Calgary and staying with him once in awhile.

Bob said that he wanted a mouthpiece that could handle what he wanted and needed. He was also doubling on Tenor Sax a lot for casual/society gigs, and he just wanted a mouthpiece that he could pick and play 'instantly' on his horn.

He was playing various horns in the Bach 16M range, experimenting with slides and bells. He got one of the very first bells made by Joe Debruycker in Vancouver back in the '80's. He was busy all the time between teaching, playing trombone, and also playing 'passable tenor sax' as the leader of countless society gigs.

It's a big rim, and huge cup. But...hey...it sure worked for Bob! One of the most amazing, inventive jazz players one could ever hear! Freaky amazing dexterity.... sounded like Coltrane on trombone.