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Trombones for uk brass band
Posted: Sat Apr 26, 2025 2:09 am
by NotATrumpet
Imagine you've been given the job of buying three trombones for a UK Championship Brass Band. The two tenors can be with or without triggers and any bore size you like. The three instruments can be any make, come from any era and there are no budget restrictions. You may also have to give recommendations for mouthpieces for that genre of music and, yes, I'm aware that mouthpiece choice is very personal but just humour me. What are your going to get and why ?
Re: Trombones for uk brass band
Posted: Sat Apr 26, 2025 3:25 am
by MrHCinDE
If you’re buying on behalf of a band, probably best to go with something in the middle ground as the horns may be used by different players over time.
Whilst I would personally like to play a 0.525” or 0.525”/0.547” on the solo trombone part (you spend a lot of time playing sustained mid to upper range notes and benefit from a bit more agility in the more technical stuff), the majority of brass band players I know are probably more used to a 0.547” setup.
There is such a range of repertoire that I think a modern 88h, Rath R4 in an 88h style or Getzen 4147IB works well on tenor. Of course there are options from Yamaha, Courtois and boutique horns which can get in a similar direction but the Conn and Getzen just edge it for me for standard setups. Vintage horns are interesting to me as an individual but for a band instrument, they are probably too much down to individual taste.
For bass there is the dual role of sitting on top of the four tubas providing a bit of clarity, occasionally edge, and the other job of something more like a symphonic trombone section. The horn I’ve played which can most naturally move between styles is the Holton TR-180, though to cover the more technical parts I’d want to have it setup with modern independent valves. I’m sure Rath or any other boutique maker could offer something with enough flexibility as well. Back when I played in brass bands, Bach and Edwards were quite popular on bass but I thought they often needed to reach ear shattering volume to get enough liveliness in some styles.
What really sets apart an excellent championship section band is the ability to play quietly, with good control and in tune so ultimately I’d take the whole section to visit Rath or a large shop like Prozone and get them to play through various repertoire, with special focus on some ppp chorales, and pick whichever the section feels most secure on and sounds best, but try to avoid anything too exotic in the setup.
Re: Trombones for uk brass band
Posted: Sat Apr 26, 2025 4:13 am
by NotATrumpet
MrHCinDE wrote: ↑Sat Apr 26, 2025 3:25 am
If you’re buying on behalf of a band, probably best to go with something in the middle ground as the horns may be used by different players over time.
Whilst I would personally like to play a 0.525” or 0.525”/0.547” on the solo trombone part (you spend a lot of time playing sustained mid to upper range notes and benefit from a bit more agility in the more technical stuff), the majority of brass band players I know are probably more used to a 0.547” setup.
There is such a range of repertoire that I think a modern 88h, Rath R4 in an 88h style or Getzen 4147IB works well on tenor. Of course there are options from Yamaha, Courtois and boutique horns which can get in a similar direction but the Conn and Getzen just edge it for me for standard setups. Vintage horns are interesting to me as an individual but for a band instrument, they are probably too much down to individual taste.
For bass there is the dual role of sitting on top of the four tubas providing a bit of clarity, occasionally edge, and the other job of something more like a symphonic trombone section. The horn I’ve played which can most naturally move between styles is the Holton TR-180, though to cover the more technical parts I’d want to have it setup with modern independent valves. I’m sure Rath or any other boutique maker could offer something with enough flexibility as well. Back when I played in brass bands, Bach and Edwards were quite popular on bass but I thought they often needed to reach ear shattering volume to get enough liveliness in some styles.
What really sets apart an excellent championship section band is the ability to play quietly, with good control and in tune so ultimately I’d take the whole section to visit Rath or a large shop like Prozone and get them to play through various repertoire, with special focus on some ppp chorales, and pick whichever the section feels most secure on and sounds best, but try to avoid anything too exotic in the setup.
Excellent response. Thank you.
Re: Trombones for uk brass band
Posted: Sat Apr 26, 2025 9:12 am
by Geordie
I have used both 88H and .525 bore tenor trombones in various traditional brass band set ups. A .525 horn with trigger would be my choice in terms of sound, blending and flexibility, particularly in the context of more modern brass band works. Having said that, I’d consider the tone/bore of the instruments used in other sections in terms of blending before making a decision. No experience to offer in regard to bass ‘bone choices.
Re: Trombones for uk brass band
Posted: Sat Apr 26, 2025 10:25 am
by SwissTbone
Brass banding at the highest levels is pretty standardized in instrument sizes.
Rath comes from that world and a lot of British players play on Rath. Standard choice would be a set of R4F's on tenor and a R9 indy on bass. Don't bother with a single valve bass. If there's a repertoire where you can take advantage of independent double valves, it's brass banding.
I don't think I have seen many players on a medium bore on 1st - but it could work.
I'd probably go with all yellow brass setups on all three trombones. If budget is an issue, I'd just take 2 x R400 and 1 x R900.
Re: Trombones for uk brass band
Posted: Sat Apr 26, 2025 12:39 pm
by StephenK
So, have you got that job?
As a starter I'd take a look at what some of the top bands are doing, eg Cory, Fodens, Flowers etc., I'd also include Brighouse & Rastrick as their trombone concept seems a bit different.
I've not been in brass bands for a while, though have heard some in the past year. Thing to avoid is non trombone players having too much influence over choice (it did happen).
Re: Trombones for uk brass band
Posted: Sat Apr 26, 2025 1:11 pm
by mikerspencer
StephenK wrote: ↑Sat Apr 26, 2025 12:39 pm
So, have you got that job?
Sounds more like "build a fantasy trombone section!"
Re: Trombones for uk brass band
Posted: Sat Apr 26, 2025 4:34 pm
by MrHCinDE
StephenK wrote: ↑Sat Apr 26, 2025 12:39 pm
Thing to avoid is non trombone players having too much influence over choice (it did happen).
This is very wise advice, it wasn’t unusual in the 90s/00s national lottery boom for the whole band (not just trombones) to be kitted out with a full set of Besson or Courtois instruments. The main exceptions used to be Soprano cornet (knew a couple who chose Schilke instead) and trombones, but in some bands they chose to stick with all Besson or Courtois. At that time, perhaps unfairly, neither the Besson nor Courtois trombones had the best reputation amongst brass band trombonists, at least the ones I knew.
I had the option of a loaner Courtois trombone, other than it having a Hagmann valve and being from the late 90s I couldn’t even remember which model exactly. It was ok, but I preferred my personal 88h, the Conn was just easier (for me) to play and sounded better. The 2nd trombonist used his own horn also as far as I recall. The bass trombonist was very happy with the Courtois however, it had a massive sound plate on the main tuning slide and independent Hagmann valves.
Similarly, I played euphonium and BBb bass in the same (championship section) band and was offered Courtois loaner instruments at one point but also preferred to play on a Besson Sovereign euphonium I had from a youth band and my personal Besson Sovereign BBb bass. I went through euphonium, BBb bass and trombone in that band before I was 18, with varying degrees of success. The conductor was a remarkably stubborn man in many respects but was prepared to listen to player feedback about instrument selection and I think some of the Courtois instruments were eventually exchanged for Besson.
Re: Trombones for uk brass band
Posted: Sat Apr 26, 2025 5:50 pm
by MrHCinDE
Re: Trombones for uk brass band
Posted: Mon Apr 28, 2025 8:57 am
by bbocaner