How Did Stan Kenton Seat His trombone section?

[ConeHead5]

I'm wondering the order in which a big band trombone section with 5 trombones (3 tenors, 2 basses) would sit. The order that would come off of the standard American would be 21345, but the way that Kenton charts are arranged it would be weird having the 5th bass far away from the string bass, and the 5th 1st, and 2nd are often doing different things than 3 and 4. I also have seen images, and it looks like there was a bass on either end of the section, but it might have just been a large belled small horn. Another thing to consider is the soloist voice of Kenton's trombones', Frank Rosolino, might have been playing 3rd. Thanks for your input!

[claf]

I don't know about Kenton's, but the UNT 1 o'clock has one bass on each side (52134 or 42135).

[dbwhitaker]

What years did Kenton have 2 bass trombones in his section? Using Google to search for Images of "stan kenton trombone section" returns a lot of photos and the only ones I can find show only one bass and 4 tenors. The one bass is always on the far right.

Looking over some of the Kenton charts in my big band books I see that the 4th part for Decoupage is strictly in tenor range while But Beautiful requires 2 bass trombones.

[AtomicClock]

This concert from '72 has bass on one side and bass/tuba on the other.

[ghmerrill]

Two Bari saxes as well! Can't have enough bass.

[Dennis]

Two Bari saxes as well! Can't have enough bass.

The second baritone doubled bass sax...just as the second bass trombone doubled tuba.

The bass sax was used to great effect by Dee Barton in Three Thoughts and Waltz of the Prophets.

Kenton started experimenting with additional bass trombone(s) (and/or tuba) in the early 1960s, on A Merry Christmas! (retitled Kenton's Christmas when Creative World [Kenton's label] re-issued it around 1970). After the Neophonic Orchestra collapsed under its own weight in the mid 1960s, he carried a bass trombone on the fourth book and a tuba/bass trombone double on the fifth book.

[Finetales]

As far as I know, the UNT lab band setup is the same as how Kenton had it, which is by design. 4th by the drums, 5th in the usual bass spot on the other end. I'm curious if that setup is mirrored in the 5 trumpets.

On an only slightly related note, I have played in big bands where the trombones were set up 4123 instead of the usual 2134, putting the bass trombone by the drums and also putting the bari in the right-most chair in front of the bass trombone. I actually prefer this setup as it's easier to lock in with the bass and drums than all the way on the other side of the band, AND lock in with the lead trombone. But it's not a common setup.

[Posaunus]

... I have played in big bands where the trombones were set up 4123 instead of the usual 2134, putting the bass trombone by the drums and also putting the bari in the right-most chair in front of the bass trombone. I actually prefer this setup as it's easier to lock in with the bass and drums than all the way on the other side of the band, AND lock in with the lead trombone.

I really like this setup concept!
Wish it was more widely adopted.