Yesterday I ended up subbing on 3rd trombone for a gig. I am lately playing a lot of lead and bass trombone, so that was a nice change.
This was with a good section. I'm reminded what fun it can be to slot into this chair.
Re: 3rd trombone in big band
Posted: Sun Apr 27, 2025 10:05 am
by cb56
Back when I was playing I played 3rd in a big band. The guy playing 2nd insisted on playing 2nd but wasn't a jazzer. That meant I got most of the improv solos. Kinda cool because I rested my chops playing 3rd and could let it fly during the jazz solos.
Re: 3rd trombone in big band
Posted: Sun Apr 27, 2025 10:08 am
by JohnL
It always seemed to me that the third trombone gets a lot of the crunchy notes.
Re: 3rd trombone in big band
Posted: Sun Apr 27, 2025 10:19 am
by Bach5G
A friend who for years refused to play 3rd, said 3rd bone got the “left over notes”. Another friend tells me he can’t play low notes.
Re: 3rd trombone in big band
Posted: Sun Apr 27, 2025 10:53 am
by tbdana
I don't mind playing 3rd occasionally. It's like a day off. But I wouldn't like a steady diet of it.
One big band I play lead in, I pass parts equally so that every third tune each tenor trombone player plays a lead part. That makes people happy, it shows respect to the other players, and it gives me a chance to rest two out of every three tunes. A good deal for all.
Re: 3rd trombone in big band
Posted: Sun Apr 27, 2025 12:05 pm
by BGuttman
3rd can get interesting when the parts call for the bass trombone to be 3rd and 4th is a tenor part. We had a couple of these arrangements in one Big Band where I was bass and I would swap parts with the 3rd.
Re: 3rd trombone in big band
Posted: Sun Apr 27, 2025 1:09 pm
by mikerspencer
As someone who regularly chooses the third chair, I think it's a part that binds a section together. Yes, it's the part to drop if you only have three players, but it really makes a difference by linking the bass and upper tenors.
Re: 3rd trombone in big band
Posted: Sun Apr 27, 2025 1:36 pm
by nateaff
I think us brass players give the inner/lower parts a short shift because so often the weakest players get those parts. The fact is sometimes those parts are in their own way more difficult to play than the lead!
Re: 3rd trombone in big band
Posted: Sun Apr 27, 2025 7:11 pm
by AndrewMeronek
nateaff wrote: ↑Sun Apr 27, 2025 1:36 pm
I think us brass players give the inner/lower parts a short shift because so often the weakest players get those parts.
At the lower levels of expertise, this is true. But once we get to being able to get gas money for gigs, this kind of goes away. At least, I think this.
mikerspencer wrote: ↑Sun Apr 27, 2025 1:09 pm
As someone who regularly chooses the third chair, I think it's a part that binds a section together. Yes, it's the part to drop if you only have three players, but it really makes a difference by linking the bass and upper tenors.
Yes! This "binding" is the most fun part. We trombones can make the whole band "sing" in a way no other section can, and a big part of this comes from the 3rd bone and how we glue the sound between the bass bone and everyone else. To that end, the 3rd bone player probably needs to be the one with the best intonation.
Re: 3rd trombone in big band
Posted: Mon Apr 28, 2025 12:32 am
by MStarke
When I play big band, it's more often on lead or bass, but from time to time I also sub on 2nd or 3rd.
I do prefer lead or bass, but 2nd and 3rd can also be a nice challenge. They are not always as obvious to hear and I really have to pay attention to match the timing and style. Sometimes it's easier to set the style yourself.
And in some charts you feel relaxed and safe and then for some reason there comes just a short phrase that gets you out of the comfort zone. You shouldn't get too comfortable, especially when sight reading.
Re: 3rd trombone in big band
Posted: Mon Apr 28, 2025 1:36 am
by Fidbone
I dislike playing 3rd trombone. It’s a load of grumbling and mumbling
Re: 3rd trombone in big band
Posted: Mon Apr 28, 2025 2:00 am
by EriKon
Interesting conversation. To me the 3rd chair is probably the most difficult one to play really good. And what a difference it is if someone is playing great 3rd trombone in a bigband. You need to listen very closely to lead tb and bass tb, your pitch has to be really good as you often play those important chord tones (5ths, 7ths or 3rds) and you need a good understanding of how the section sounds in front of the bells for a good blending. And that's the hardest on 3rd because the section doesn't sound good if you're just a bit too soft and it makes the work of everyone else a lot harder. But it sounds really awful if you're too loud because nothing will be in tune. The range of volume is really small and needs to be right at it.
I've played a lot of 3rd trombone in the past. Nowadays it is most often 1st tb. Would love to play some more 3rd again sometimes if there are strong lead players.
Re: 3rd trombone in big band
Posted: Mon Apr 28, 2025 7:19 am
by BGuttman
From Alan Raph:
1st Trombone: Strong player, great high range.
2nd Trombone: Jazz Player. Great improviser
4th Trombone: Foundation of the section.
3rd Trombone: also sets up the band and drives the bus.
Re: 3rd trombone in big band
Posted: Mon Apr 28, 2025 8:33 am
by JTeagarden
When you play 3rd bone in a big band, you are Alice on the Brady Bunch...
4th trumpet is Sam the Butcher.
Re: 3rd trombone in big band
Posted: Mon Apr 28, 2025 9:34 am
by tbdana
EriKon wrote: ↑Mon Apr 28, 2025 2:00 am
Interesting conversation. To me the 3rd chair is probably the most difficult one to play really good. And what a difference it is if someone is playing great 3rd trombone in a bigband. You need to listen very closely to lead tb and bass tb, your pitch has to be really good as you often play those important chord tones (5ths, 7ths or 3rds) and you need a good understanding of how the section sounds in front of the bells for a good blending. And that's the hardest on 3rd because the section doesn't sound good if you're just a bit too soft and it makes the work of everyone else a lot harder. But it sounds really awful if you're too loud because nothing will be in tune. The range of volume is really small and needs to be right at it.
I've played a lot of 3rd trombone in the past. Nowadays it is most often 1st tb. Would love to play some more 3rd again sometimes if there are strong lead players.
As a 3rd trombone, having a strong lead player is the whole enchilada.
For me, the most fun thing about playing 3rd is following a good lead player; trying to be glued to him/her, being an exact copy of everything the lead is doing in terms of style, articulation, note duration, pitch, volume, and every other conceivable way. And when you have a good and very consistent lead player to follow, that can be rewarding and a ton of fun.
Of course, if you are trying to follow a bad lead player, the opposite is true. It can be very frustrating and no fun at all, and you have to resist the urge to drop an anvil on his head.
If you're on 3rd, pray for a great lead player.
Re: 3rd trombone in big band
Posted: Tue Apr 29, 2025 2:34 pm
by mikerspencer
I was on third last night. One of the best moments was low octaves with the bass trombone. Eg A and pedal A. The third part functions like overtones on the bass. Brilliant fun.
