TromboneChat

I like to use a solid back up horn as my "school horn" when teaching, and am in the market for a new one.

I am seeing (maybe noticing is the better word) more and more great looking older yamaha's on ebay for even better prices.

I have seen a lot of YSL 648's and they seem to be a Conn 88H copy, and the Ysl-455g is a 36 copy (kind of?). So my question is, were there any Bach copies prior to the Xeno line?

I haven't checked if anything fits other than the slide tenon (it does match Bach) but my 613H feels exactly the way a Bach 50 should. It's got way better rotors though.

On paper and how it feels the 613H is a pretty close match, the 612 and 613 that preceded it aren't even in the same universe as Bachs though.

I'd also probably disagree that there's ever been a Yamaha 36 copy. I play a lot on my 645 and it's got a wider bell flare, two piece bell, round crook, lighter build... basically nothing in common with Bach at all

nateaff wrote: ↑Fri May 02, 2025 3:17 pm there's ever been a Yamaha 36 copy. I play a lot on my 645 and it's got a wider bell flare, two piece bell, round crook, lighter build... basically nothing in common with Bach at all

Thanks for the info.

I have seen seller's compare the specs on a 645 to a 36, but have never tried one to see for myself.

Basses after the 613H, wide slide xenos. None of them are close though, imo.

Burgerbob wrote: ↑Fri May 02, 2025 3:43 pm Basses after the 613H, wide slide xenos. None of them are close though, imo.

Thanks! I have been seeing so many cheaper Yamahas I was hoping I could snag one as a Bach style backup.

Put a real bach bell on one and that might be a different result... I need to try that on the more modern horns.

Burgerbob wrote: ↑Fri May 02, 2025 3:43 pm Basses after the 613H, wide slide xenos. None of them are close though, imo.

The only wide slide Xeno that exists is the 882OR. They're basically the perfect trombone if instead of a Bach 42 you want 105% of a Bach 42.

Everything is just a little bigger, a little heavier, and a little more bass-y. I think they're a tad heavy for principle playing, but an ideal 2nd chair instrument.

The best Bach backup is another Bach

nateaff wrote: ↑Fri May 02, 2025 7:09 pm

Burgerbob wrote: ↑Fri May 02, 2025 3:43 pm Basses after the 613H, wide slide xenos. None of them are close though, imo.

The only wide slide Xeno that exists is the 882OR. They're basically the perfect trombone if instead of a Bach 42 you want 105% of a Bach 42.

Everything is just a little bigger, a little heavier, and a little more bass-y. I think they're a tad heavy for principle playing, but an ideal 2nd chair instrument.

The best Bach backup is another Bach

They play great, but they don't have the sound. The Bach part is missing.

If you want a Bach, you have to buy a Bach.

I have tried 882OR and Bach 42O back to back. Different, but each has its own advantage. Yes the Xeno are “Bach-inspired”, but I don’t think Yamaha wanted to copy the sound. They seem to just use the “concept” of heavier horn.

For me the OR is too “euphonium-ish”. Too dark, too much halo but not enough edge and core.

The Doug Yeo bass sure feels, plays, and sounds like a Bach 50 (but with better valves). I have a Bach 50 and the Yeo bass. When I got the Yeo my Bach was set up with dependent rotors (by Benn Hanson) with the rotors bored. If the grips weren't slightly different I wouldn't be able to tell the horns apart. I've assumed Doug Yeo started his horn at Yamaha with his best/favorite Bach and Yamaha ended up making the best production Bach 50.