TromboneChat

I posted pics of this awhile back, but I've now got it set up with a case and a mouthpiece, and I'd like to send it off to a good home.

This is a .460 bore horn with brass inners and soldered-on stockings. The taper is very gradual through the neckpipe and tuning slide crook. The bell is around 4" and it plays at A=440.

The garland is soldered in place, rather than being stretched and pressed as was originally done on period horns. It's a not perfect, but I think it maintains the vintage look you want from a sackbut.

I'm including a Conn mouthpiece that I modified to get the flat rim and sudden transition into the backbore. The bowl was partially filled with a copper/silver alloy, then machined out to a bowl and re-plated by Anderson. There's a bit of tarnish on the rim, but it will polish out.

The water key was removed and the hole was filled using a small brass disc and silver solder, then re-plated by Anderson.

What I like about this horn is that there are no compromises in bore. It was designed to have a small bore with a small taper. While it's not perfect, it's much closer to the style of an original sackbut than a cut-down Bundy, or some of the reproductions on the market today.

The case was an experiment. It works, but I gave up on the addition of fabric liner because it just wasn't working out as I wanted it to. The case itself was designed to carry arrows, and has a foam liner. The slide compartment works very well, but the part that holds the bell is rather crude and cave-man-ish. If you'd like, I can include a replacement for that section in plain foam, cut to fit the bell section. The fabric is held in place with spray adhesive and rubber cement.

Pictures at: http://imgur.com/a/VPATf

I love your projects, man!

I must admit, I like how that project turned out! Did you give up on your idea of lengthening the bell and shortening the neck pipe to have bell in 4th?

Quote from: Le.Tromboniste on Aug 03, 2017, 12:18PMI must admit, I like how that project turned out! Did you give up on your idea of lengthening the bell and shortening the neck pipe to have bell in 4th?

I thought about it, but I thought it was more important to focus on things that affect the sound rather than the aesthetics. I guess if you need to hit the bell to see what position you're in, this one wouldn't work. Of course, you'd need 9" thumbs to be able to do that anyway.

Seriously--is there any real advantage to having the bell in 4th position?

It's all muscle memory. No need for the flare to be in fourth. When I use a practice mute on my bass I unscrew the bell and play that way.

Quote from: Euphanasia on Aug 03, 2017, 04:15PMSeriously--is there any real advantage to having the bell in 4th position?

Yes - it's more historical

Seriously - in your case, starting with an existing instrument, it doesn't matter. You would have had  to make a new tuning slide actually... For an instrument built from scratch, it does affect the sound a little bit. On a historical sackbut, the neckpipe is cylindrical, and so is the back bow. The bell is conical in its entire length (including the first bit of tubing, if it's built in two parts). So assuming you keep the same width between neckpipe and bell stem, the taper of the bell is necessarily different with the bell in 4th.

Also, on a psycho-acoustic level - bell in 4th feels very different because the bell is much further from your ears, and you don't perceive your sound the same way.

So no, it's not about visually seeing your position, it is about sound.

 To be fair, however, although most sources before at least the 19th century and most surviving trombones have the bell in 4th,there are actually sources that describe the equivalent of modern 3rd position as "at the bell". So I would imagine that some makers in some places did make them that way.

Quote from: Euphanasia on Aug 03, 2017, 04:15PMSeriously--is there any real advantage to having the bell in 4th position?

OH YES. Well, "advantage" or not is up for debate, but it makes night and day difference in timbre. That's one whole slide position's length of difference in the distance the bell could use to flair out to the final bell diameter. 4th position bell is longer and thus taper is slower. Totally different sound results.

Looks like you did an excellent job at re-working an existing small bore into an affordable "sackbut" .
So what if the bell isn`t in 4th position. For someone , like me, that wanted to venture into the world of sackbut playing but didn`t want to spend a small fortune on a "Historically correct" instrument, Euphanasia has done an great job.
The horn looks great and sounds like he`s put a lot of time and thought into how it will sound. And his price is very reasonable.
If you think that it`s so bad to have these, Make you own, and don`t buy this one.
Great Job !

Quote from: Dukesboneman on Aug 04, 2017, 05:19AMLooks like you did an excellent job at re-working an existing small bore into an affordable "sackbut" .
So what if the bell isn`t in 4th position. For someone , like me, that wanted to venture into the world of sackbut playing but didn`t want to spend a small fortune on a "Historically correct" instrument, Euphanasia has done an great job.
The horn looks great and sounds like he`s put a lot of time and thought into how it will sound. And his price is very reasonable.
If you think that it`s so bad to have these, Make you own, and don`t buy this one.
Great Job !

I don't think you heard anybody here complaining and dissing the project. I was asking out of curiosity because Euphanasia did mention he wanted to try making it a 4th position bell in the past.

There are plenty of professional sackbut players that have a bell in 3rd on some of their instruments, and as I say, there are even sources to support it.

And yes, Euphanasia did a beautiful job on this instruments, and I love the care taken to choose an instrument that is very small and very cylindrical. And the mouthpiece looks much  better than many I've seen.
 I'd be very curious to try them both

Wow! You did a great job with my horn but this one takes the cake by a mile. I especially love the garland on this one, very elaborate. The mouthpiece mods are cool as well.