Bore size advice (Is it me? Am I the drama?)

[thosepslooklikefstome]

Playing for years, all amateur stuff. Current horn/mp combo not cutting it. Mostly having issues landing transitions with higher notes that I can nail with previous horns. Looking for advice, condemnation, whatever.

Background:
- started on King 606 w VB 6 1/2 AL
- next was Getzen (something- whatever model it is that comes with valve combo), same mp
- next was Reynolds Onyx (.515 bore), and honed in on a Schilke 52. A perfect combo for me.
- didn't want to overuse the Onyx, so looked for my first large bore tenor and found a silver Blessing 88
- started 88 with a Griego 4.5 mp, but realized that went in wrong direction
- then tried 4G, DW 4AL, Schilke 52, and a 52E2 but best result so far has been a JSV2
- thought that fixed probs with upper register transition cracking, but it's happening again

I'm tired of trying to find a mp that works for this 88, and wondering if I need to find a medium bore or try another .547 bore, or maybe a dual bore. Not sure what the issue is, bc I also play bass and I can fill a horn without issue.

[BGuttman]

Before you go horn shopping, make sure the valve is properly aligned both in the open and closed positions. A slight mismatch between the rotor and the casing can create the problems you describe.

[thosepslooklikefstome]

Before you go horn shopping, make sure the valve is properly aligned both in the open and closed positions. A slight mismatch between the rotor and the casing can create the problems you describe.

Good shout. Thank you. Will do.

[hyperbolica]

I was cracking a lot of notes on my Elkhart 88h and Doug Elliott turned me on to a different way of looking at tbone mouthpieces. I was using things between 5g and 52e2. He set me up with a 104 rim, which is about the size of a 3g, I think. And then for 547 horns I would use an F or G cup with an 8 shank to fit the large bore. The cracking notes went away. There was a small adjustment to the bigger rim, but I found it fit me better. The rest of the piece fit the horn.

Anyway, fit the rim to your face, the cup to the sound you want to make, and the shank to the horn you have. I've got DE stuff for all my tenors, from 547 to sub 500. I never look for anything else for tenors.

It sounds like your history is with mouthpieces that are a bit too big for the horn. 515 bore with a Schilke 52 is big in my opinion. Should be more in the 48 size (6.5al). You might sign up for a fitting with Doug. He can watch you play and diagnose a lot of stuff as well as prescribe a mouthpiece.

Blessing 88 is a fine horn, and the Reynolds should be fine as well, you just have to have mouthpieces to fit yourself and the horn at the same time. The only real way to do that is modular mouthpieces. I'm of the opinion that just about any horn they make is or can be a good instrument. A Bach 36/Conn 79h are great horns, and fit a lot of middle of the road mouthpieces (like 6.5al). There are King and Reynolds and Getzen in that bore as well.

[thosepslooklikefstome]

I was cracking a lot of notes on my Elkhart 88h and Doug Elliott turned me on to a different way of looking at tbone mouthpieces. I was using things between 5g and 52e2. He set me up with a 104 rim, which is about the size of a 3g, I think. And then for 547 horns I would use an F or G cup with an 8 shank to fit the large bore. The cracking notes went away. There was a small adjustment to the bigger rim, but I found it fit me better. The rest of the piece fit the horn.

Anyway, fit the rim to your face, the cup to the sound you want to make, and the shank to the horn you have. I've got DE stuff for all my tenors, from 547 to sub 500. I never look for anything else for tenors.

It sounds like your history is with mouthpieces that are a bit too big for the horn. 515 bore with a Schilke 52 is big in my opinion. Should be more in the 48 size (6.5al). You might sign up for a fitting with Doug. He can watch you play and diagnose a lot of stuff as well as prescribe a mouthpiece.

Blessing 88 is a fine horn, and the Reynolds should be fine as well, you just have to have mouthpieces to fit yourself and the horn at the same time. The only real way to do that is modular mouthpieces. I'm of the opinion that just about any horn they make is or can be a good instrument. A Bach 36/Conn 79h are great horns, and fit a lot of middle of the road mouthpieces (like 6.5al). There are King and Reynolds and Getzen in that bore as well.

Thank you. I will check out the Doug Elliot option.

As for the Reynolds + Schilke 52, I was still playing on my starting mouthpiece size of 6 1/2 AL, and it started to get limiting when transitioning large distance registers. I went to the Schilke factory and tried many options. I landed on the 52, which surprised me. It seems like it should be too large, but it worked perfectly. I could hit all the highs and transition to lows and back like it was nothing. It's been my best combo so far.

Idk know if I can go too much smaller with the 88. I first tried the Griego 4.5, which is only slightly larger than the 6 1/2, and it did not work at all. Besides the transition cracking, it was too limiting.

Thanks again for the feedback and advice!

[Doug Elliott]

What hyperbolica was suggesting, as works for him and a lot of people, is a bigger rim size with a slightly shallower cup. I don't know if that's appropriate for you, but the concept works. The larger inside diameter takes care of the "upper register transition" issue, and the slightly shallower cup makes it easier to play.

[Geordie]

Worked for me.

[tbdana]

What hyperbolica was suggesting, as works for him and a lot of people, is a bigger rim size with a slightly shallower cup. I don't know if that's appropriate for you, but the concept works. The larger inside diameter takes care of the "upper register transition" issue, and the slightly shallower cup makes it easier to play.

Doug, do shallower cups necessarily translate to brighter sound?

[tromboneVan]

Another +1 for someone who has seen a great benefit from Doug's mouthpiece prescription.

[dwcarder]

Dana, check out this document:

"The Proper Selection of Cup Mouthpieces"
By
JODY C. HALL, Ph. D.
Chief Accoustical Engineer
Conn Corporation

https://cderksen.home.xs4all.nl/images/ ... ooklet.pdf

[Doug Elliott]

Shallower cups pretty much always emphasize higher frequencies than deeper cups... but the differences between my cups are small increments.

[MStarke]

This topic was posted in instruments and understandably comments are largely on instruments and even more mouthpieces.

You have not given too much information on your playing level and the specific issues that you are having, but before looking for other mouthpieces, you may really want to take a few lessons and/or give it more time to practice.

I don't mean this bad, just coming from trying to solve playing problems with equipment myself

[thosepslooklikefstome]

This topic was posted in instruments and understandably comments are largely on instruments and even more mouthpieces.

You have not given too much information on your playing level and the specific issues that you are having, but before looking for other mouthpieces, you may really want to take a few lessons and/or give it more time to practice.

I don't mean this bad, just coming from trying to solve playing problems with equipment myself

Thanks. Solid advice. I took the suggestion to have a session with Doug Elliot. The experience was enlightening. It once again reminded me of the vast difference between amateurs and professionals. I am solidly a rank amateur. And, I came away from the session with the realization that I've reached my limit of equipment improvements and need to work more fundamentals to gain any more improvement. It's a fascinating realization to process after all these years.

[thosepslooklikefstome]

What hyperbolica was suggesting, as works for him and a lot of people, is a bigger rim size with a slightly shallower cup. I don't know if that's appropriate for you, but the concept works. The larger inside diameter takes care of the "upper register transition" issue, and the slightly shallower cup makes it easier to play.

Thanks, Doug. And, thanks for the session, attention and advice. I look forward to following up with you when I am able to level up.

[thosepslooklikefstome]

TL;DR: I, in fact, am the drama. Lol

[MStarke]

Nice. have fun! and you can still get another mouthpiece or instrument, but with better playing mechanics for yourself!