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joining the "olds" crowd

Posted: Sun Sep 20, 2015 10:43 pm
by ttf_JohnL
Quote from: barking on Sep 20, 2015, 07:12PMany fix for a olds that plays flat ?I've had some success with having the shank turned down a bit so the mouthpiece seats deeper into the receiver.

I've considered having Kanstul make up a batch of 7C's and 6.5AL's with shanks to fit Olds horns, but there didn't seem to be enough interest to justify the expense.

joining the "olds" crowd

Posted: Mon Sep 21, 2015 7:09 am
by ttf_greenbean
Quote from: barking on Sep 20, 2015, 07:12PMany fix for a olds that plays flat ?


An Olds mouthpiece.  Olds 1's are great!

joining the "olds" crowd

Posted: Mon Sep 21, 2015 8:11 am
by ttf_cb56
One of my Olds Recordings came with an OLds 3. Still played flat.
It's too bad there aren't any folks that built horns for Olds on these forums to answer questions about how/why the horns were built the way they were. Why they play flat. Why the smaller mouthpiece shank/receiver etc....

I'd like to try an Olds 1 sometime and see how I like it with my Recordings

joining the "olds" crowd

Posted: Mon Sep 21, 2015 8:20 am
by ttf_Douglas Fur
Quote from: watermailonman on Sep 20, 2015, 03:03PMYes I have read that too. I wonder why?

I have three S-15, one R-15 and one R-20 add two older with TIS. To me they ALL sound better with lighter mouth pieces, that is mouthpieces with less mass.

/Tom

Tom
There definitely is a correspondence between mass of the horn and mass of the mouthpiece. I've been playing a Cleavland 606 lately. It came with a generic 12C. Another 12C, what can I learn from this? I thought. So I filed off about 20% of its weight. The lighter mpc seems to match the horn, brighter and more responsive. It's more flexible, easier to bend tones,which could be seen as less able to slot into a pitch.
DRB
Seola Creek

joining the "olds" crowd

Posted: Mon Sep 21, 2015 2:03 pm
by ttf_bonesmarsh
Having owned a pile 'o Bach bass trombones, and other "modern" bass trombones-- a lot are (or were) built to require cutting of the main tuning slide to get the horn up to pitch. It was so common a problem that Bach for a long while offered a shorter tuning slide as an after-market optional piece to buy.

I also found it necessary and desirable to cut a few vintage Olds tenors. These include A Super and a Recording, to get them up to pitch.


Now, one of the lapses in logic that this thread has shown is the perception that by pushing your tuning slide all the way in you are now up to modern pitch on a vintage Olds. ( Regardless of mouthpiece). The lapse is shown by the player never actually knowing if they have pushed in enough-- or if cutting the horn would improve the whole thing further.
So, to make sure you're doing the right thing ( and covering your a** in ensembles that play higher than A-440) buy the hack saw for $10 and make the four very small very simple cuts to reduce the length of the horn./

There are no ferrules to worry about the cosmetics of the cuts.
You're not talking about an Elkhart Conn.
You have no idea how flat you are when you're pushed all the way in-- and LIPPING UP 1ST POSITION.

Cut 3/4" out of each leg of the tuning slide for a total of 1 1/2". You will be surprised. You may have to remove more. We're talking about 1 1/2" out of the 8" you have to play with--- it is not a huge crime. Playing consistently flat in 1st is the crime here.

As for the screwball Olds 3, of which no two are alike? A nice modern compromise might be a Bach small shank 6 1/2A . "A" with the smaller throat. It is two sizes smaller than a 'C" throat folks. And that makes it vintage enough to fix a lot of the acoustical crimes you find when you use a non-Olds mouthpiece in an Olds trombone.
If you really want to spend the money then the new vintage style Bach Artisan mouthpieces are also screwy enough in their exterior to look and act very similar to a vintage Olds "pear" mouthpiece.

joining the "olds" crowd

Posted: Mon Sep 21, 2015 3:49 pm
by ttf_cb56
No freakin' way I'm taking a hacksaw to my horn!
Now I might let a good tech do it if I really feel its necessary.

Actually I checked with a tuner. Played a nice relaxed Bb without looking at the tuner then glancing at it to see what it showed. Tuning slide all the way in is right on the money on both my horns. (Every time)

Yes the problem would be when playing in an ensemble that plays sharp. Hopefully in this day and age of electronic tuning that case would be rare.

An Olds 3 being same as 6 1/2A? Not any Olds 3 I've played. They've varied from 12C to 7c in size.
Maybe the Olds 1? I haven't tried one yet.

joining the "olds" crowd

Posted: Mon Sep 21, 2015 4:36 pm
by ttf_Doug Elliott
I can put an Olds taper shank on any of my mouthpieces.  When a mouthpiece doesn't go in far enough it makes it feel stuffy AND flat - those two are closely related.  A smaller shank taper fixes both of those things.

I've played my original Recording (1954-55) on a few gigs and never had a pitch problem.  I play every horn with the tuning slide pushed all the way in, so that one's no different.
 

joining the "olds" crowd

Posted: Mon Sep 21, 2015 7:46 pm
by ttf_anonymous
Quote from: bonesmarsh on Sep 21, 2015, 02:03PMHaving owned a pile 'o Bach bass trombones, and other "modern" bass trombones-- a lot are (or were) built to require cutting of the main tuning slide to get the horn up to pitch. It was so common a problem that Bach for a long while offered a shorter tuning slide as an after-market optional piece to buy.

I also found it necessary and desirable to cut a few vintage Olds tenors. These include A Super and a Recording, to get them up to pitch.


Now, one of the lapses in logic that this thread has shown is the perception that by pushing your tuning slide all the way in you are now up to modern pitch on a vintage Olds. ( Regardless of mouthpiece). The lapse is shown by the player never actually knowing if they have pushed in enough-- or if cutting the horn would improve the whole thing further.
So, to make sure you're doing the right thing ( and covering your a** in ensembles that play higher than A-440) buy the hack saw for $10 and make the four very small very simple cuts to reduce the length of the horn./

There are no ferrules to worry about the cosmetics of the cuts.
You're not talking about an Elkhart Conn.
You have no idea how flat you are when you're pushed all the way in-- and LIPPING UP 1ST POSITION.

Cut 3/4" out of each leg of the tuning slide for a total of 1 1/2". You will be surprised. You may have to remove more. We're talking about 1 1/2" out of the 8" you have to play with--- it is not a huge crime. Playing consistently flat in 1st is the crime here.

As for the screwball Olds 3, of which no two are alike? A nice modern compromise might be a Bach small shank 6 1/2A . "A" with the smaller throat. It is two sizes smaller than a 'C" throat folks. And that makes it vintage enough to fix a lot of the acoustical crimes you find when you use a non-Olds mouthpiece in an Olds trombone.
If you really want to spend the money then the new vintage style Bach Artisan mouthpieces are also screwy enough in their exterior to look and act very similar to a vintage Olds "pear" mouthpiece.

I got an artisan 6 1/2a two weeks ago for just those reasons, and my most of my olds horns really sing with it. I'm also thinking about trying a Doug Elliott with a turned down shank just for curiosity sake, because I have a couple that the larger throat

joining the "olds" crowd

Posted: Fri Oct 02, 2015 6:51 am
by ttf_barking
another olds on the way. 1941 olds super. think im gonna like it alot. should be here today. the price was good and i couldnt resist. LoL anyway ill post pics soon. looks like i am an olds player. the experience with my a-20 has made me a believer. nice horns indeed. i like vintage in certain things. the materials that were available, coupled with the craftsmanship, can be a nice combination.

cheers
mark

joining the "olds" crowd

Posted: Fri Oct 02, 2015 11:07 am
by ttf_cb56
Congrats, I'm sure you'll love it!

joining the "olds" crowd

Posted: Sun Oct 04, 2015 3:08 am
by ttf_barking
1941 olds super arrived. i played it. i really like it. hafta experiment a little with the mouthpiece maybe. this horn is capable of cutting through just fine LoL. the brass is a beautiful color when polished. fluted slide works very well. pics soon.

joining the "olds" crowd

Posted: Mon Oct 05, 2015 3:28 am
by ttf_barking
i noticed that non olds mpc's rock slightly when used in either of my olds horns. i guess the taper is different as well. true ?

joining the "olds" crowd

Posted: Mon Oct 05, 2015 5:32 pm
by ttf_cb56
Welcome to the world of Olds. From what I've read, taper is the same just narrower. The mouthpiece should go into the receiver 1 inch. Draw a pencil line on the mouthpiece shank while it's in the horn then take the mouthpiece out and measure from the line to the end of the shank.

I've sanded down two Blessing 7c mouthpieces to fit my Olds horns.

If they go into the horn 1 inch and still wiggle, use plumber's teflon tape around the shank to stop the wiggle.

joining the "olds" crowd

Posted: Tue Oct 06, 2015 10:58 am
by ttf_dj kennedy
THERE are  very few vinty mpcs that fit olds  well  --and  the olds mpcs  sure r hard to  find  !!!!!!!!!!!

joining the "olds" crowd

Posted: Wed Oct 07, 2015 6:00 pm
by ttf_Douglas Fur
Quote from: barking on Oct 05, 2015, 03:28AMi noticed that non olds mpc's rock slightly when used in either of my olds horns. i guess the taper is different as well. true ?
Wiggle might mean the receiver is out of round.
DRB

joining the "olds" crowd

Posted: Fri Oct 09, 2015 5:29 am
by ttf_barking
olds mpc s fit perfectly.

joining the "olds" crowd

Posted: Fri Oct 09, 2015 4:24 pm
by ttf_anonymous
I got an Olds special- my first Olds. I dig the dual bore slide and the appearance.  The slide I happened to get is not so hot though. The inners are 'walnutted' from past repairs.  I'm considering buying another horn, and maybe stepping up.

Can any of you folks compare the special to the Super, Recording, and Studio?  Materials, bore, sound, etc?

Thanks!

joining the "olds" crowd

Posted: Fri Oct 09, 2015 8:59 pm
by ttf_JohnL
The Super, Studio, and Special are basically the same dimensions, just different materials. The Recording is slightly larger all around.

There's three different versions of the Special. The earliest is mostly yellow brass, then came the version with a nickel silver bell tail and rose brass flare, and finally one that was nickel plated all over.

At any rate, if you really like the sound of your Special, try to find a similar Special in better condition. Another option would be to pick up an A-15 Ambassador in good shape and use the slide from that.



joining the "olds" crowd

Posted: Fri Oct 09, 2015 9:00 pm
by ttf_cb56
Scroll down this page for specs on all the Olds trombones.
http://www.webring.org/l/rd?ring=trombone;id=1;url=http%3A%2F%2Fwebspace.webring.com%2Fpeople%2Foy%2Fyuenli%2Fdiscontspecs.html
Never played a special but have only heard good things about them.
I think the special was the basic pro model with not alot of bling. Same size as a super which has a bronze brass bell with tone ring and plays darker. Recording is a larger horn with red brass bell and nickel silver outer slide (earlier ones had red brass slide. Love to try one of those some day)
Don't know much about the studio. I think it changed alot (metals used)over the years while the others stayed constant.
Love my two Olds Recordings. Never gonna let them go.  

*****************************
I see John L and I posted about the same time. I trust his knowledge of all things Olds.


joining the "olds" crowd

Posted: Sat Oct 10, 2015 3:26 am
by ttf_barking
got my olds 3 mpc today. i like it in the super. i started using my olds 1 mpc in my a 20. i like it also. so i am currently using the stock and proper olds mpc's in the appropriate horns. they seem to be a good match. i am gonna keep it this way for the forseeable future. fwiw, the horns both play in tune.
(a few cents sharp but not flat)with the tuning slide all the way in. they have enough adjustment for the odd sharp situation. awesome !!they are perfectly in tune now with the tuning slides out about 1/2 inch on both horns. yee haw. im very pleased.

joining the "olds" crowd

Posted: Sun Oct 11, 2015 6:09 am
by ttf_133154
Quote from: UKBlueBone on Oct 09, 2015, 04:24PMI got an Olds special- my first Olds. I dig the dual bore slide and the appearance.  The slide I happened to get is not so hot though. The inners are 'walnutted' from past repairs.  I'm considering buying another horn, and maybe stepping up.

Can any of you folks compare the special to the Super, Recording, and Studio?  Materials, bore, sound, etc?

Thanks!

the ambassador slides are a good option, they're almost bullet proof and sound well with the other bells. I highly recommend the 1947 standard if you can get them at a good price. I have two and they are great sounding horns !!!

http://www.ebay.com/itm/331676979788?_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

joining the "olds" crowd

Posted: Sun Oct 11, 2015 7:34 am
by ttf_Cush
I have all of the horns you listed and have enjoyed them all. 
My first trombone was an Olds Ambassador.  It has none of the fancy stylings of some of the other old Olds, but is an excellent student horn.
The Special is definately a step up, though there are many different versions with a great deal of difference in their tonal qualities.  My favorite of the Specials I have owned is the two-tone version that is all brass with nickel plating on the throat of the bell.  This horn plays light and bright and crystal clear, yet warmly. 
Olds also made a much heavier two-toned Special thatt was solid nickel silver through the throat of the bell that then transitioned to brass -  this too was a very nice player with that colder, crisper tone that the harder nickel silver offers.
The Super is much more consistant in tone quality throughout the many years and styles they offered.  Light, bright and stable at all volume levels with a warmth that the redder brass perrmits.  You can't go wrong with a Super.
The two-toned Olds Studio is also hard to put down once I pick it back up.  The tone is a bit darker than the Super.
The Olds Standard is similar in tone and also a joy to play.
The all nickel  plated Studio is a very different, but fun horn to play that projects brilliantly and plays quite openly.
I let go a P-16 custom to a friend of a friend and have been missing it ever since.  Nothing fancy to look at, but it was extremely light yellow brass and was very comfortable to play, and oh, what a delicate and delightfully bright tone it offered.
The Old Super Star is a silver plated version of the Olds Recording and plays surprisingly mellow and warm for a silver horn.
I have never owned a P15 or an Opera, so there may be new heights in the Olds experience to reach.
My favorite of all of my Olds horns is the straight Olds Recording that I am playing now.  There is something about the shape and thickness of that red brass bell that is nothing but the truth.  It's time to go play!!!
Welcome to the club.  lol 

joining the "olds" crowd

Posted: Sun Oct 11, 2015 9:40 am
by ttf_JohnL
Quote from: Cush on Oct 11, 2015, 07:34AMThe Old Super Star is a silver plated version of the Olds Recording and plays surprisingly mellow and warm for a silver horn.Acutally, it's mostly yellow brass under the silver, which would make it a silver-plated A-20 Ambassador. It does have conventional round three-piece braces, which are (IMHO) a significant improvement over the braces used on the A-20 (particularly the one-piece brace used on the A-20's handslide).

joining the "olds" crowd

Posted: Sun Oct 11, 2015 11:19 am
by ttf_bonesmarsh
Some preface to my later statement to make sense of a rambling post.

1. Olds went out of business in '79, leaving a lot of really special R&D and bizarre horns in the lurch. Nobody has even made a half-a**ed attempt to replicate the old Olds horns.
2. A lot of the secret in Olds R&D was the combination of alloys in their R&D.
That said:

I've also owned a pile of Olds horns in the past few years. I love them. Not King, not Conn, not Bach...just the best combination of all the American makers and dead-set in their way to never replicate other company's R&D.


*****

The Olds Recording with F attachment had an 8 1/2" bell. Not 8" like a straight Recording. So, it was a dual bore .500/.510 with a 8 1/2" thick red bell.
The more modern P-15 had an 8" thin thin hard lubaloy gold brass bell.
I have both horns, Recording and P-15, and they aren't even remotely related in any way. If you were to try and prove they were both Olds you couldn't do it.

****

By chance I found a MODERN horn to connect to the P-15 and assume the best qualities of the F attachment horns. I found an incredible deal on an all Chinese Eastman 432G .547 F attachment horn. It came with a good case and a mint Wick 2NAL unused Wick Heritage mouthpiece. For the price I paid I got the mouthpiece and case for my money, and the horn was free. That cheap.

But the Eastman 432G is a sh*tty sh*tty instrument. Maybe the worst .547 tenor on the planet. The mouthpiece they send with it has to be seen to be dis-believed. I tried to use a good mouthpiece. No dice. I tried a larger Wick 4AL. It was worse.
So, I tried a succession of smaller mouthpieces-- using a small shank adapter.
Finally I was getting somewhere.
Remember, for the price I paid for a mint used unplayed 432G I couldn't say no to it.

Finally I got down to an 11C in a .547 tenor and the horn just exploded. It was FANTASTIC.
It was an oversized Olds P-15 with an F attachment.

Read the online reviews of the Eastman 432G--- Eastman KNOWS it is a dog horn-- so they sell it as having a fantastic upper register-- which it does. The trigger  register is fine, but the strength in this .547 is from upper G to high D.

But why? WHY?
Because they used Olds R&D.
Nickle silver slide.
Thin thin hard GOLD lubaloy 8 1/2" bell.

To me the Eastman 432G is an Uzi. An all purpose .547 that plays like a King 3B -- or an Olds P-15---- but has a great trigger and is well balanced enough that you can safely take it anywhere to any gig and have yourself covered.
Just like an Olds Recording with F attachment.

Finally somebody rolled all of the old Olds R&D into one horn and re-issued it. Remember-- the Eastman bare bones 432G is not a Shires. But it is a fantastic Olds-- plug in an 11C or 12C and just go to town.

Lots of ads for Olds featuring the great Eddie Bert still on ebay. Eddie Bert wrote and annotated some really bitchy method books in the 50s. They are examples of the incredibly difficult stuff Eddie Bert had to do daily--without preparation. He used an Olds Recording with F attachment.

You want a MODERN Olds Recording with F attachment?
Find an Eastman 432G to try with a mouthpiece adapter.



joining the "olds" crowd

Posted: Sun Oct 11, 2015 12:02 pm
by ttf_cb56
Quote from: JohnL on Oct 11, 2015, 09:40AMAcutally, it's mostly yellow brass under the silver, which would make it a silver-plated A-20 Ambassador. It does have conventional round three-piece braces, which are (IMHO) a significant improvement over the braces used on the A-20 (particularly the one-piece brace used on the A-20's handslide).
Superstar has two F att. tuning slides like the recording. I believe ambassador only has one.
Love the Superstar. Wish I still had mine.

joining the "olds" crowd

Posted: Sun Oct 11, 2015 2:50 pm
by ttf_JohnL
Quote from: cb56 on Oct 11, 2015, 12:02PMSuperstar has two F att. tuning slides like the recording. I believe ambassador only has one.Late A-20's also had two...

joining the "olds" crowd

Posted: Sun Oct 11, 2015 4:07 pm
by ttf_cb56
Quote from: JohnL on Oct 11, 2015, 02:50PMLate A-20's also had two...
Image

joining the "olds" crowd

Posted: Sun Oct 11, 2015 6:58 pm
by ttf_Arrowhead99
When did the Olds Custom Trombone come out? I've seen a few catalogs from the '60's and don't remember seeing it available, though I've heard a few folks mention that Rosolino used a custom made Olds in the 1962 jazz scene usa video, etc....                                         

joining the "olds" crowd

Posted: Sun Oct 11, 2015 7:14 pm
by ttf_JohnL
Quote from: Arrowhead99 on Oct 11, 2015, 06:58PMWhen did the Olds Custom Trombone come out? I've seen a few catalogs from the '60's and don't remember seeing it available, though I've heard a few folks mention that Rosolino used a custom made Olds in the 1962 jazz scene usa video, etc....The '62 Olds catalog doesn't mention the Custom line, the '66 catalog does.

Of course, that's the "Custom" models (aka "P-series") - but that was just the name of a series of models. They weren't actually custom-made. Olds did do a lot of custom work over the years, but that's a whole 'nother thing. Someone on the forum has an Olds trombone marked "Custom" that was made before the P-series came out.

Unfortunately, we don't have a complete record of all the catalogs. It's kinda like paleontology and the fossil record - though at least our "fossils" tend to be more or less complete. I've got several horns in my collection that don't appear in any of the available catalogs.

joining the "olds" crowd

Posted: Sun Oct 11, 2015 7:16 pm
by ttf_bonesmarsh
My '73 P-15 on the bell says:
Custom Crafted
Fullerton, etc etc etc..
No model anywhere.


My '78 P-16 was engraved Custom Crafted
                           P-16.

This leads me to believe that any Custom pre-P-16 is a P-15, and they verbally used the name P-15 to differentiate between P-15 and P-16. JohnL's website would have an answer if you want the photos in really high def.

Possibly search for P-15 if you want "Custom" info and can use the written material for an answer.

joining the "olds" crowd

Posted: Sun Oct 11, 2015 7:56 pm
by ttf_Arrowhead99
How does the P-15 compare to, say, a Conn 6H?

joining the "olds" crowd

Posted: Sun Oct 11, 2015 11:06 pm
by ttf_watermailonman
Quote from: bonesmarsh on Sep 21, 2015, 02:03PMHaving owned a pile 'o Bach bass trombones, and other "modern" bass trombones-- a lot are (or were) built to require cutting of the main tuning slide to get the horn up to pitch. It was so common a problem that Bach for a long while offered a shorter tuning slide as an after-market optional piece to buy.

I also found it necessary and desirable to cut a few vintage Olds tenors. These include A Super and a Recording, to get them up to pitch.


Now, one of the lapses in logic that this thread has shown is the perception that by pushing your tuning slide all the way in you are now up to modern pitch on a vintage Olds. ( Regardless of mouthpiece). The lapse is shown by the player never actually knowing if they have pushed in enough-- or if cutting the horn would improve the whole thing further.
So, to make sure you're doing the right thing ( and covering your a** in ensembles that play higher than A-440) buy the hack saw for $10 and make the four very small very simple cuts to reduce the length of the horn./

There are no ferrules to worry about the cosmetics of the cuts.
You're not talking about an Elkhart Conn.
You have no idea how flat you are when you're pushed all the way in-- and LIPPING UP 1ST POSITION.

Cut 3/4" out of each leg of the tuning slide for a total of 1 1/2". You will be surprised. You may have to remove more. We're talking about 1 1/2" out of the 8" you have to play with--- it is not a huge crime. Playing consistently flat in 1st is the crime here.

As for the screwball Olds 3, of which no two are alike? A nice modern compromise might be a Bach small shank 6 1/2A . "A" with the smaller throat. It is two sizes smaller than a 'C" throat folks. And that makes it vintage enough to fix a lot of the acoustical crimes you find when you use a non-Olds mouthpiece in an Olds trombone.
If you really want to spend the money then the new vintage style Bach Artisan mouthpieces are also screwy enough in their exterior to look and act very similar to a vintage Olds "pear" mouthpiece.

Hi Bonesmarsh. I think I agree on the Olds being too flat and need to be cut. I think that is the reason I feel they need mouthpieces with less mass. I think these lighter mouthpieces might be easier when you have to bend notes into pitch and that is the whole reason. It affects the playing of the whole horn and is not a problem only for notes on first position. I agree with you there.

I read your second post here too but don't understand what "R&D" means. Could you explain?

/Tom

joining the "olds" crowd

Posted: Sun Oct 11, 2015 11:14 pm
by ttf_JohnL
Quote from: watermailonman on Oct 11, 2015, 11:06PMI read your second post here too but don't understand what "R&D" means. Could you explain?"Research and Development"

joining the "olds" crowd

Posted: Mon Oct 12, 2015 6:06 am
by ttf_bonesmarsh
Olds R&D-- an example: They had a model called the "Radio". The bore and bell size were selected so that studio players could get the best results from the microphones used from 1920 to 1940. For the same reason prehistoric recording technology used bell-front tubas and bass saxophones to cover the bottoms. Nothing wrong with the ears-- the microphones were bad and the recordings were bad to do.

Another example--- the King 2B is the still existing winner from the time period when King ( HN White) had a dozen models of similar size and design.
Olds kept at least 6 models from the pre-war period on their catalogue, using dual bores and alloys designed for a specific sound-- long past the time when King "HN White" had eliminated all of their straight horns but the 2B and 3B.

You don't like a 2B? Try an Ambassador. etc etc etc
You want a dual bore 3B with some heft to the sound? Dig out a Recording.

***
As for cutting horns?
Take three or four mouthpieces and a tuner and play a concert middle C. Now, lip that note up as high as you can, and then down. Watch the tuner as you SEE the pitch go +/- 30 cents.
Now switch mouthpieces and try it again. +/- 10? +/- 50?
Repeat.
Repeat.

Your horn will do ANYTHING you want it to.
Some mouthpieces resist bending.
Some leadpipes resist bending.
Your EARS do not-- your EARS love bending.

I recently grabbed a lesson from Al Kay while he was on the road here. His personal pet peeve is the upper G. He plugs an app into his smart phone and plays to an East Indian drone pitched in G to center his G.
Strangely, as I use a tuner a lot, my G was right where I thought it should be--- and I could lip it in THAT position to an Ab or an F.
But, I had great teachers and was taught how to blow through the horn. And how to buzz.

I have friends who live in Toronto, Canada. The saying in Toronto is :" If you say you have no cockroaches you are either a liar or blind."
After 20+ years on a Bach 50B3LG..and knowing 100% of my friends cut their Bach basses... I can sleep well at night thinking : "If you think your 1st position on a Bach bassis A-440 from the factory, you're either a liar or deaf."

I cut my Recording and EVERYTHING just got better.

joining the "olds" crowd

Posted: Mon Oct 12, 2015 11:48 am
by ttf_FranksProject43
Maybe it 's just me, but my 1970ish Studio, the .500 single bore, 8" bell, all nickel silver finish, requires me to pull the tuning slide about 5/8 inch. I'm using an Olds 3 mouthpiece. I've never understood where the flat tuning issue came from. I will say that my mouthpiece is very different from the other 3's I have tried. I sometimes wonder if it was worked on after factory. There is NO lower collar on it as there is on the others I have had. Mine is the pear shaped one. For what it's worth. Frank   

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Posted: Mon Oct 12, 2015 5:10 pm
by ttf_barking
btw the a-20 is 510-525. the superstar is not. the a20 handslide is different than an a15 handslide and different than a superstar handslide, bore wise.

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Posted: Mon Oct 12, 2015 6:47 pm
by ttf_JohnL
Quote from: barking on Oct 12, 2015, 05:10PMbtw the a-20 is 510-525. the superstar is not. the a20 handslide is different than an a15 handslide and different than a superstar handslide, bore wise.The 1970 and 1973 Olds catalogs here list the bore of the A-20 as .495"-.510" (rotor .515"), same as the R-20.

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Posted: Mon Oct 12, 2015 8:47 pm
by ttf_JaneOlds
I am hoping to join the Olds crowd as soon as I get some money together. I want a super cos I mainly play jazz. Will it sound ok in a community concert band as well? 

joining the "olds" crowd

Posted: Mon Oct 12, 2015 10:16 pm
by ttf_Arrowhead99
For community concert band a Super should work fairly well for 1st/2nd parts. Once you get into playing 3rd you may desire an F-attachment...

joining the "olds" crowd

Posted: Mon Oct 12, 2015 10:39 pm
by ttf_JohnL
Quote from: JaneOlds on Oct 12, 2015, 08:47PMI am hoping to join the Olds crowd as soon as I get some money together. I want a super cos I mainly play jazz. Will it sound ok in a community concert band as well?That would depend greatly on the sort of band you're dealing with. For the typical community concert band, it'd be fine. If, on the other hand, you're looking at a group that's run more along the lines of a university wind symphony, a Super might not be the best choice.



joining the "olds" crowd

Posted: Mon Oct 12, 2015 11:21 pm
by ttf_JaneOlds
It's a concert band that plays a lot of more modern popular piecesQuote from: JohnL on Oct 12, 2015, 10:39PMThat would depend greatly on the sort of band you're dealing with. For the typical community concert band, it'd be fine. If, on the other hand, you're looking at a group that's run more along the lines of a university wind symphony, a Super might not be the best choice.



I think I should be ok with a super, I play 1st (just been promoted!) and we mainly play modern/ popular peices. I really just want an Olds cos it has my name on it! Image

joining the "olds" crowd

Posted: Tue Oct 13, 2015 6:04 am
by ttf_cb56
When I picked up my 2nd Recording from DJ about 6 weeks ago, he had a nice LA Super in stock.
Might want to give him a holler.

joining the "olds" crowd

Posted: Tue Oct 13, 2015 6:41 am
by ttf_barking
my olds a-20 is mid 70s and 510-525. interesting. if i knew how to supply a link i have that spec published by olds as 510-525. huh go figure. thanks for the link

joining the "olds" crowd

Posted: Tue Oct 13, 2015 7:27 am
by ttf_JohnL
Quote from: barking on Oct 13, 2015, 06:41AMmy olds a-20 is mid 70s and 510-525. interesting. if i knew how to supply a link i have that spec published by olds as 510-525. huh go figure. thanks for the linkHow and where did you measure it?

Trombone bore is the ID of the inner slide tubes. It's hard to get a good measurement with a caliper, for couple reasons (though that usually results in a number that is smaller than the actual dimension). I used to use a telescope gage and a micrometer, but there's a particular "touch" required to get accurate readings with that, too. I finally bought a micrometer with a ball anvil so I could measure wall thicknesses accurately and now I just measure the wall, measure the OD of the stocking (making sure to measure both in the same place) and calculate the bore.

Are you looking at this page (or one like it on another site) for your spec?
http://www.oocities.org/yuenli_low/trombone/discontspecs.html



joining the "olds" crowd

Posted: Tue Oct 13, 2015 8:52 am
by ttf_barking
i measured it accurately and its within a thousandth or so. not too hard to measure, someone else did as well. ambassador outer will not accept either inner in either outer. nor will the super outer. my a20 is 510-525.  i dont doubt they came with more than one bore though. i sure like playing that horn, even though its a later trombone, it has no problems or shoddiness in manufacturing that i can find. both olds i have are way nice and sound great. different but great.

joining the "olds" crowd

Posted: Tue Oct 13, 2015 9:05 am
by ttf_barking
not that page but i find it in several places. wonder what it lists the bore as in much earlier catalogs and such. now im curious.

joining the "olds" crowd

Posted: Tue Oct 13, 2015 3:46 pm
by ttf_Arrowhead99
I've got 2 Supers (L.A.) up for sale if anyone is interested. I'm in-between moveing so they'll be available towards the end of this month.

joining the "olds" crowd

Posted: Tue Oct 13, 2015 4:10 pm
by ttf_JohnL
Quote from: barking on Oct 13, 2015, 09:05AMnot that page but i find it in several places. wonder what it lists the bore as in much earlier catalogs and such. now im curious.The earlier catalogs that I have seen do not specify bores; it's only the later ones that include that sort of information.

If the slide bore is larger, I wonder if some of the other parts are larger, too. I've got an A-20 bell (no A-20 slide, unfortunately); I will take some measurements when I get a chance.

joining the "olds" crowd

Posted: Sat Oct 17, 2015 4:50 am
by ttf_barking
one other thing. ive heard the slide assembly from a super will fit an a20 receiver  ....not even close on my a 20. i think there are some differences between a20s.

joining the "olds" crowd

Posted: Mon Nov 02, 2015 10:57 am
by ttf_cb56
Thought I'd share these.
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