TromboneChat

     Hello, I hope we've all had a great thanksgiving! I've been listening to a lot of McChesney these days and some other guys too of course. I happen to love the "velvet" jazz sound...guys like watrous, Bob McChesney especially...Harry Watters, you name the guy. I also love the guys like Wycliffe, Andy Martin, everyone, etc. One type of sound is definitely no better than the other & to say that would be a slap in the face to first class musicianship everywhere. I can't help but wonder though, what has more to do with distinct sounds? Do guys with the velvety-smokey sound breathe different, use less air or different structure than the guys without it? Or (as I'm suspecting) is it purely based on their individual musculature? Lastly, I'm also betting equipment plays a huge part here. Just wondering...we may never know for sure due to the fact that we play the most interesting/unique instrument of all time, it's certainly fun to speculate though!

Quote from: Rudolphtheredslide on Nov 27, 2016, 02:23PM...Lastly, I'm also betting equipment plays a huge part here...

and don't forget that how someone is mic'd has a lot to do with what gets on the recording.

They have a sound in their head... and work to get it out of the horn.

Chris Stearn

I don't think it's equipment so much as it is emulation of all the various factors that go into making a distinctive sound - namely; articulation, air control, embouchure shape and style of playing - to name a few. I believe that style of playing may be the largest factor. Imitate someone else's style and it may not matter as much if you can't actually match their sound.

Just my observations...

...Geezer

Quote from: Geezerhorn on Nov 28, 2016, 09:10AMI don't think it's equipment so much as it is emulation of all the various factors that go into making a distinctive sound - namely; articulation, air control, embouchure shape and style of playing - to name a few. I believe that style of playing may be the largest factor. Imitate someone else's style and it may not matter as much if you can't actually match their sound.

Just my observations...

...Geezer

I agree. It's the factors in the sound envelope that matter, rather than the tonal quality on the body of the note itself.

The velvety style the OP refers to is mostly achieved by close mic technique. Funnily enough, I hear very clear articulations from Bob McChesney. His articulation is also uncannily uniform. Both he and Harry Watters are brilliant trombone technicians, but their improvisations are just not musically interesting to me. They just sound like a string of scales until they run out of breath, then another string of scales.

Quote from: Rudolphtheredslide on Nov 27, 2016, 02:23PMI can't help but wonder though, what has more to do with distinct sounds? Do guys with the velvety-smokey sound breathe different, use less air or different structure than the guys without it? Or (as I'm suspecting) is it purely based on their individual musculature?

This is the same stuff I'd been wondering about McChesney. He has such an interesting tone, it's very full and VERY round with a lot of core, especially in his articulations, and it keeps those characteristics from the bottom to the top of the range, from what I've been able to hear.

Quote from: sonicsilver on Nov 28, 2016, 01:30PM
Both he and Harry Watters are brilliant trombone technicians, but their improvisations are just not musically interesting to me. They just sound like a string of scales until they run out of breath, then another string of scales.


Comments on this post?

Quote from: Pre59 on Dec 05, 2016, 05:19AMComments on this post?

I'll start.

Harry Watters playing Cherokee https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D9igFLZuCK4 improv starts at about 1:30
Very accomplished playing but very little rhythmic variety or attempt to create melodic lines.

Couldn't find a good (or bad) example of Bob McChesney, so I'll gladly take it back. Perhaps I was thinking of someone else, or maybe I got confused by Carnival of Venice... 

This might be the cue for a new topic. Because so many musicians have had a similar education and are competing in the same field, is there a fear of putting your head above the parapet, and conforming to that norm?

There’s a sense that the solo has become a statement; “This is what I know”.

Perfection in band or orchestra ensemble is laudable, but when it comes to improvisation I'd like to hear more of a division between "in" and "outside", with ideas developing outwards from opening statements etc, and a greater connection with the rhythm section.

I'll get my coat..

This might be the cue for a new topic. Because so many musicians have had a similar education and are competing in the same field, is there a fear of putting your head above the parapet, and conforming to that norm?

There’s a sense that the solo has become a statement; “This is what I know”.

Perfection in band or orchestra ensemble is laudable, but when it comes to improvisation I'd like to hear more of a division between "in" and "outside", with ideas developing outwards from opening statements etc, and a greater connection with the rhythm section.

I'll get my coat..