TromboneChat

This is the bass trombone, not the tenor, (the tenor is designated YSL-620).

I bought my 620G bass a couple of years ago. L&M, a big Canadian chain of music stores, had a used one in its Oshawa store (kind of upstate NY-ish) and were happy to ship it to the West Coast for me to try out, no obligation, free of charge.

It arrived after a week and I went to try it out. There was an 830 and a Yeo to compare it with (and I was playing a Getzen 1062 at the time). Yam seems to go out of its way to undersell the 620, but it turned out to be a nimble, responsive horn, easy to hold and easy to play. I preferred it to both Xenos. The valves were a bit sticky, especially #2 but L&M said said they’d have their repairman have a look at it. If he did, he didn’t look very hard or very long. I bought the horn anyway. I came to believe the slow sticky valves were just what you got with a used, less than top end horn and I thought I would just have to learn to live with it.

Almost immediately, all my bass trombone playing opportunities dried up.

I got it out last week for the first time in a while and found the tuning slides frozen in place. I took it back to L&M. Their brass repairman turned out to be a pleasant young Japanese woman who had been trained by Yamaha and had worked for them before coming to Canada. I told her about the tuning slides being frozen. “What about this one?” she asked, pointing to a small loop of tubing. I didn’t even realize there was a tuning slide there.

I picked it up just before orch rehearsal a few nights ago. She pointed out the 4th tuning slide and explained it was there to get the water out of the F and D loops. And then she said she’d worked on the valves. They were smooth, quiet, effortless and fast. She explained that this was supposed to have been done when I bought the horn but it wasn’t and, therefore, she wasn’t charging me for the work on the valves.

I played it at rehearsal and then again this afternoon. This is a superb horn. It’s light, well-balanced, easy to play and exceptionally nimble. Mine came with a brass slide (instead of the standard nickel silver) which I understand was something requested by the brass guy at Yamaha Canada. It is truly a joy to play.

Now, if the 620 tenor were as good a horn ...

I wish I could have a chance to try it. When I decided to bought a bass (on an auction website) to donate to my former school, I was a bit rushed and jumped on the first reasonably-priced bass that popped up, which was a YBL-612. It turns out to be OK but not great, and I spent almost $250 in overhauling it and converting the D linkage. Around two months later a YBL-620 in very good shape showed up at around the price I paid for the 612 plus overhauling...

The small loop slide is the thing I like about Yamaha’s standard wrap. Easy to get water out.

Played one of these today at Dillon Music. It was my favorite bass trombone in the store. I don't understand why they don't market this horn better. I also like the 830 though.

An update to my January 2019 review.

I played bass in orchestra for two concerts this year: in March, we did Deutsches Requiem and, last night, we did movie music. (I'm a little John Williams-ed out this morning!). I've been playing this horn quite a bit over the past five months.

The valves continue to be a bit of an issue, but part of that is my fault, having used spindle oil instead of light rotor oil. My repairman sorted me out last week, cleaned everything again, and the valves are now smooth and quick. He also gave me a tip or two about oiling them, and sold me some Swiss-made Tromba rotor oil (he is from die Schweiz himself) which should keep me from ruining them for a while.

The DR and the movie music have almost completely opposite demands. In the Brahms, you support the choir and, although there are a couple of very nice soloistic passages, you're not the show. In this setting, the horn played just fine. It played fat, without getting nasty. We were told to hold back, in order for the choir to be heard, but over time, I just got louder and louder based on what I thought sounded appropriate. Never got the hand, got a few compliments. Must have been ok.

In the movie music, well, there are many moments when you are the show and, again, the horn didn't disappoint. When you wanted to bark, it barked. Or whatever dinosaurs do.

It seems more sensitive to mouthpieces than some horns I've had. I've kind of settled in to a 1 1/4G (am going to try a GM model) or a Wick 0AL (brings out a nice, dark, quality). The horn is very agile and responsive. I wonder if the tradeoff is that it might not handle the highest volume. Mr. C. Vernon of Chicago might find it a little light for the Ring Cycle or Mahler 8 (but just fine for the summer pops season!)

I kind of get Yamaha's marketing now. It pitches the horn to band directors, although it is also described as a "professional" horn. The horn is light and responsive, with good ergodynamics, and typically excellent Yamaha quality (maybe too good, in the case of the valves - very close tolerances?). I think it would fit into nearly any situation, which is something an aspiring young trombonist might find useful. Generally, I am pretty happy with it.

I played in an orchestra with a guy with the YBL-620G. I always thought it had a 10" bell which turned me off (on Paper). I also wish more basses had the Eb-G and D-Gb option.

The predecessor models, the 611/612s, had 10" bells. I'd like to have one of those.

MahlerMusic wrote: ↑Wed May 29, 2019 8:38 am I played in an orchestra with a guy with the YBL-620G. I always thought it had a 10" bell which turned me off (on Paper). I also wish more basses had the Eb-G and D-Gb option.

The current YBL-830 can be made into (flat)G-Eb by ordering another F slide and put it into Gb/D branch. The slides of both branches are of the same width. I haven’t try putting Gb/D slide into F branch though. E pull maybe?

sirisobhakya wrote: ↑Wed May 29, 2019 12:19 pm The current YBL-830 can be made into (flat)G-Eb by ordering another F slide and put it into Gb/D branch. The slides of both branches are of the same width. I haven’t try putting Gb/D slide into F branch though. E pull maybe?

Cool, that does look like the case.
Great job Yamaha

I mostly play single trigger old Conn trombones but sometimes I need a double trigger. I got a Chinese inline Jinbao free sometime ago. It was OK but just not like you "jump and say hurray" So I just got myself an YBL-620G. Its really a nice horn. Easy to play, responsive and very nimble. I liked the Yamaha from the first note I played it. Its different from the Conn bass trombones but the sound is still so nice. Maybe a little dark, but I really liked it. And its even from top to toe. The valves are so easy to make speak, even C and B. And very strange I got it so cheap from Germany, Thomann. With taxes it was much cheaper than all other countries. I think this will give me some fun in the future!

Leif

Hey Leif.

I’ve had a couple of issues with mine that I’ll share with you. The second valve was an ongoing problem. Hetman’s light rotor oil solved that problem. I also pulled the lead pipe. It was very long, 11”, and heavy. I’m using an M/K G Roberts which lightens up the sound and response. I’m also supposed to have an MK50 leadpipe coming which will make for an interesting comparison.

I don't have a 620G, but I have three Yamaha bass bones, a single trigger 421G, a 622G, and a 613H. I also have a slide that takes interchangeable pipes. I can tell you that the Yamaha bass trombones that I have play very will with the MK50 pipe, which plays very open, and not too much different than the stock 613H pipe. They also play very well with a Shires #2 pipe.

I did put on some "Selmer rotary valve oil" I only have had the trombone 2 days but both valves seems to be very quiet and quick. For me its good the lead pipe is soldered or else I would have to start a "journey" trying lead pipes. I feel the horn is good as it is. For me its very responsive and nimble. And in my ears the sound is ok as it is. Even if yamaha are known to be consistent, maybe there can be some dogs out there? I dont know.

Leif

The YBL-620 G is a great horn, and was on my short list for a while, before I found a great deal on a great condition YBL-612 R II.

sirisobhakya wrote: ↑Wed May 29, 2019 12:19 pmThe current YBL-830 can be made into (flat)G-Eb by ordering another F slide and put it into Gb/D branch. The slides of both branches are of the same width. I haven’t try putting Gb/D slide into F branch though. E pull maybe?

I did not realize that ordering another F-slide for the YBL-830 could give it that ability. Can it do an in tune G?

The best Yamaha bass I have ever tried was a YBL620G. Great sound and feel.
Chris

How would you compare this against Yamaha's other dependent basses, like the 822/622 or the old 611/612?

pompatus wrote: ↑Wed Jan 27, 2021 12:23 pm How would you compare this against Yamaha's other dependent basses, like the 822/622 or the old 611/612?

The 620 I tried was H&S above the 822/622 models I've tried...but they only work with big mouthpieces. 611/612.... it's been too many years to remember.

Chris

pompatus wrote: ↑Wed Jan 27, 2021 12:23 pm How would you compare this against Yamaha's other dependent basses, like the 822/622 or the old 611/612?

The salesman at Dillon Music said the 620G was Yamaha's version of a vintage Conn 62H. Whether this is true or the playing characteristics equate I am not sure as I have never played a vintage Conn 62H.

FOSSIL wrote: ↑Wed Jan 27, 2021 1:33 pm

pompatus wrote: ↑Wed Jan 27, 2021 12:23 pm How would you compare this against Yamaha's other dependent basses, like the 822/622 or the old 611/612?

The 620 I tried was H&S above the 822/622 models I've tried...but they only work with big mouthpieces. 611/612.... it's been too many years to remember.

Chris

"They" being the 822/622 or the 620, or all of the above? That is, did you think the 620 also requires big mouthpieces?

spencercarran wrote: ↑Wed Jan 27, 2021 9:56 pm

FOSSIL wrote: ↑Wed Jan 27, 2021 1:33 pm
The 620 I tried was H&S above the 822/622 models I've tried...but they only work with big mouthpieces. 611/612.... it's been too many years to remember.

Chris

"They" being the 822/622 or the 620, or all of the above? That is, did you think the 620 also requires big mouthpieces?

622/822. The Doug Yeo models. His mouthpiece is comparable in size to a Schilke 60.

I have no experience with any modern Yamaha bass trombone to say one way or the other regarding mouthpiece size for the 620G.

spencercarran wrote: ↑Wed Jan 27, 2021 9:56 pm

FOSSIL wrote: ↑Wed Jan 27, 2021 1:33 pm
The 620 I tried was H&S above the 822/622 models I've tried...but they only work with big mouthpieces. 611/612.... it's been too many years to remember.

Chris

"They" being the 822/622 or the 620, or all of the above? That is, did you think the 620 also requires big mouthpieces?

622 and 822 designed with Douglas Yeo who uses a big mouthpiece. The 620 seems quite happy with smaller mouthpieces.

Chris

Yam says the 620 is for “budget conscious band directors” and it ships with a Yam 58.

MTbassbone wrote: ↑Wed Jan 27, 2021 6:37 pmThe salesman at Dillon Music said the 620G was Yamaha's version of a vintage Conn 62H. Whether this is true or the playing characteristics equate I am not sure as I have never played a vintage Conn 62H.

A more correct statement would be that the YBL-611/YBL-612 was based on the 62H / 73h. The 62H has changed over the years, and in the 1970s, it was a tuning in slide horn with a red brass bell. The 73H was produced at the same time, and had bell tuning and a yellow brass bell.

https://cderksen.home.xs4all.nl/Conn62H1970image.html
https://cderksen.home.xs4all.nl/Conn73H1968image.html

The original Yamaha YBL-612 had a Yellow Brass 10" bell and a yellow brass outer slide with oversleeves. I think the YBL-611 had a smaller bell. Over the years the specs on those changed, and by the time the YBL-612 RII came out, it had a 10 inch red brass bell and nickel outer slide.

That is the horn that the YBL-620G came from. I'm pretty sure it has the exact same slide, but the wrap was redone and a different bell made.

I would say that the 620 is closest to the traditional Conns in terms of sound and feel. The Conn 62H and 73H were very different to each other and nothing like the 612/611 Yamaha models in my opinion.

Chris

" YBL-612 RII came out, it had a 10 inch red brass bell and nickel outer slide."

Thanks for the history David. I have this version, which also has the split triggers from the factory. I bought it used , but always wondered when this final iteration was first sold and how long it was produced for? Detailed Yamaha history can be hard to come by.

noordinaryjoe wrote: ↑Thu Jan 28, 2021 11:58 amThanks for the history David. I have this version, which also has the split triggers from the factory. I bought it used , but always wondered when this final iteration was first sold and how long it was produced for? Detailed Yamaha history can be hard to come by.

Per the Yamaha parts catalog: https://parts-search.yamaha.co.jp/html/WIND_ENGLISH/

YBL-612 1976 〜1984

YBL-612 Ver. 2 & YBL-612R 1984 〜1993

YBL-612(2) & YBL-612R(2) 1994 〜2001

I am not entirely clear on the difference between the YBL-612 1st and second version. It was revised when they introduced the YBL-612R in 1984. In 1994 the models were replaced with the Split Trigger II models.

I assumed Yam just put a second valve on its 421 single bass.

FOSSIL wrote: ↑Thu Jan 28, 2021 11:46 am I would say that the 620 is closest to the traditional Conns in terms of sound and feel. The Conn 62H and 73H were very different to each other and nothing like the 612/611 Yamaha models in my opinion.

Chris

I think Chris is right, as usual, and I understand why the salesman at Dillons told what he told. I only have the 60h single trigger but still. The 60h and 70h is very different. Anyway I really like this 620G, its really a nice one and the Symington 1 1/2 made it really speak. The mouthpiece in the case was a 2g size and was not bad either. Im so happy I got this one! Bought it unseen but after first note I breath out and felt just like "yesss! "

Leif

Symington Zirconium or brass?

SwissTbone wrote: ↑Thu Jan 28, 2021 2:12 pm Symington Zirconium or brass?

The brass version. I have been a little back and forward on the Symington and Mt Vernon 1 1/2g lately. But they both are great in the 620g. But the Symington is a bit more safe for me so it looks like that’s the one for me. Anyway I recommend this Yamaha 620g!

Leif

Bach5G wrote: ↑Thu Jan 28, 2021 12:41 pm I assumed Yam just put a second valve on its 421 single bass.

looking at the parts diagrams, they all use the 421 leadpipe.

tbonesullivan wrote: ↑Thu Jan 28, 2021 12:20 pm

noordinaryjoe wrote: ↑Thu Jan 28, 2021 11:58 amThanks for the history David. I have this version, which also has the split triggers from the factory. I bought it used , but always wondered when this final iteration was first sold and how long it was produced for? Detailed Yamaha history can be hard to come by.

Per the Yamaha parts catalog: https://parts-search.yamaha.co.jp/html/WIND_ENGLISH/

YBL-612 1976 〜1984

YBL-612 Ver. 2 & YBL-612R 1984 〜1993

YBL-612(2) & YBL-612R(2) 1994 〜2001

I am not entirely clear on the difference between the YBL-612 1st and second version. It was revised when they introduced the YBL-612R in 1984. In 1994 the models were replaced with the Split Trigger II models.

Great info, especially the link to the parts catalog...much appreciated! -Joe

The 613H used a very long leadpipe with a gradual taper - I think this same pipe is in the 830 and possibly the 605. The 622/822 is not the same as the 613H. As mentioned, the one most readily available is used on the other models including the 620, is an excellent choice and is only $23.58.

JoeStanko wrote: ↑Fri Jan 29, 2021 10:11 am The 613H used a very long leadpipe with a gradual taper - I think this same pipe is in the 830 and possibly the 605. The 622/822 is not the same as the 613H.

Yes - copying from the recent post on a similar topic:

Yamaha parts database

There are three Yamaha bass leadpipe models, used as follows:

- All non-Yeo dependents (612 and 620), singles (322 and 421), and the early 80s 613/613R.

- The two Yeo models (622 and 822).

- The 1990s-current indys (613H/HS/HEL and 830).

(The YBL-605 used a tenor part from the 882 - the slide is .547/.563" dual bore.)

The leadpipe in my 620 is 11” long, very gradual taper.

tbonesullivan wrote: ↑Wed Jan 27, 2021 11:24 am

sirisobhakya wrote: ↑Wed May 29, 2019 12:19 pmThe current YBL-830 can be made into (flat)G-Eb by ordering another F slide and put it into Gb/D branch. The slides of both branches are of the same width. I haven’t try putting Gb/D slide into F branch though. E pull maybe?

I did not realize that ordering another F-slide for the YBL-830 could give it that ability. Can it do an in tune G?

Quite flat. Please see the screenshot of the tuner below. The slide also cannot be pushed all in except if you have it cut, after which I believe it can do in-tune G no problem.

Your main tuning slide is quite far out in that case though... Still, very interesting. Sourcing an extra f slide and cutting a little off of it is not so drastic.

Thanks for the info/demonstration!

spencercarran wrote: ↑Sat Jan 30, 2021 8:33 am Your main tuning slide is quite far out in that case though... Still, very interesting. Sourcing an extra f slide and cutting a little off of it is not so drastic.

Thanks for the info/demonstration!

For 31 degrees celsius in Thailand right now, The main has to be that far out to make Bb in tune

sirisobhakya wrote: ↑Sat Jan 30, 2021 3:51 amQuite flat. Please see the screenshot of the tuner below. The slide also cannot be pushed all in except if you have it cut, after which I believe it can do in-tune G no problem.

Well, that's a no go then. Probably easier to cut down the receiver end. I still don't know why they did away with that feature of the 613H when they made the 830. They could have marketed it as an extra part, and they could also have one for the BB tuning.

I’ve had the chance to try out a couple of M/K lead pipes. It’s interesting what a difference they make. The MK 50 brings out a Bach-ness in the horn, lots of core, less colour, while the Geo Roberts has more colour. One odd aspect was that my 1 and 1/2G initially felt like a 1 and 1/4.

Both are improvements over the stock pipe in my opinion.

Sorry to resurrect at topic, but can anyone tell if the YBL-620 bell is soldered or unsoldered?

The bell is unsoldered