TromboneChat

Hi,

Is there anybody who can tell which Yamaha Bousfield played before he went to Getzen?
Is it a 882 or a 882UG? Or something else? What’s the difference?

He primarily played on Conn's (8H, 88H varieties) for the vast majority of his career. In between Conn and Getzen, Yamaha made a custom horn for him but that was relatively short lived. Think the number starts with a 6 and ends with a "B" for...you guessed it...Bousfield. It's no longer in production.

A friend has one and let me try it recently. It looks similar to a 88HCL. Big Lindberg style rotor. Plays almost identical to the 88HCL w/heavy rotor cap, but with a distinct Yamaha character that is hard to describe. Not a bad horn at all, but hard to find nowadays.

The Bousfield Yamaha was 682B. Larger valve than the standard 682 and (if I recall correctly) a thicker bell.

He also played a xeno model for several years, which was after the one Bruce mentioned in the previous posts. You can see him playing it in several YouTube videos both on stage and at his home practicing. What model xeno is anyone's guess, but it looked like a 882.

This comes up from time to time.

I heard Ian speak when the horn came out. He explained that the horn was designed with the acoustics of the Barbican in mind (Ian being in the LSO at the time). Hence the heavyweight bell and heavy lead pipe. Thevalve, he said, was from a 19th C German design.

I had one for several years but sold it and bought an Elkhart 88H. I’d like to try a 682B to see what my impressions might be now.

castrubone wrote: ↑Mon Mar 04, 2019 2:39 pm He primarily played on Conn's (8H, 88H varieties) for the vast majority of his career. In between Conn and Getzen, Yamaha made a custom horn for him but that was relatively short lived. Think the number starts with a 6 and ends with a "B" for...you guessed it...Bousfield. It's no longer in production.

A friend has one and let me try it recently. It looks similar to a 88HCL. Big Lindberg style rotor. Plays almost identical to the 88HCL w/heavy rotor cap, but with a distinct Yamaha character that is hard to describe. Not a bad horn at all, but hard to find nowadays.

That sounds like the equally short lived Alain Trudel model...

https://www.wwbw.com/Yamaha-YSL-682B-Pr ... 61521.wwbw

Here is the UK Yamaha flyer for the 682B showing how the valve works, different internally to both the Minick and the Conn Lindberg.

It always seemed a shame to me that they didn't employ this valve on a bass trombone as you could taper the centre section to the dimensions of a goose neck, would be interesting to try

BellEnd

That looks exactly like the Minick valve internal setup, just with a different valve wrap and possibly rotating in the opposite direction.

The minnick valve is also a straight pipe with two C shapes on the sides.

bellend wrote: ↑Thu Mar 07, 2019 4:39 am Here is the UK Yamaha flyer for the 682B showing how the valve works, different internally to both the Minick and the Conn Lindberg.

It always seemed a shame to me that they didn't employ this valve on a bass trombone as you could taper the centre section to the dimensions of a goose neck, would be interesting to try

BellEnd

Hagmann 'progressive bore' rotors do exactly that; the two rotors are of different internal bores and iirc they also taper slightly from one end to the other. Not all Hagmanns do though it's just an option.

Matt K wrote: ↑Thu Mar 07, 2019 8:25 am

bellend wrote: ↑Thu Mar 07, 2019 4:39 am Here is the UK Yamaha flyer for the 682B showing how the valve works, different internally to both the Minick and the Conn Lindberg.

It always seemed a shame to me that they didn't employ this valve on a bass trombone as you could taper the centre section to the dimensions of a goose neck, would be interesting to try

BellEnd

Hagmann 'progressive bore' rotors do exactly that; the two rotors are of different internal bores and iirc they also taper slightly from one end to the other. Not all Hagmanns do though it's just an option.

Yes. I have the Hagmann progressive bore on my bass and you can tell the difference.

I didn’t think the Bousfied and Trudel horns were the same. I thought the Trudel horn was more 88H-like. 684?

harrisonreed wrote: ↑Thu Mar 07, 2019 6:41 am That looks exactly like the Minick valve internal setup, just with a different valve wrap and possibly rotating in the opposite direction.

The minnick valve is also a straight pipe with two C shapes on the sides.

If it is I stand corrected, I'd been led to believe it was just a larger standard rotor.

The Meinlschmidt radial flow valve appears to be the same concept as well

Here is the Minick, it does appear very similar

No big deal haha. Yes, the minnick wrap is the same as the lindberg wrap, but the inner valve shape is completely different from the lindberg, which has a Y branch as the "straight" section.

Minnick is the same shape as the Radial Flow. The yamaha appears to be nearly the same, but the wrap is rally different (looks like Shires trubore). Looks like yamaha goes the opposite direction.

Ian said the 682B valve was from a 19th C German design. I see Meinlschmidt has been in business in 1866, so ...

Bach5G wrote: ↑Thu Mar 07, 2019 6:54 pm Ian said the 682B valve was from a 19th C German design. I see Meinlschmidt has been in business in 1866, so ...

All cows eat grass. My mower eats grass. So my mower must be a cow?

Your mower eats grass?

Drinking again Bruce?

Bach5G wrote: ↑Thu Mar 07, 2019 6:54 pm Ian said the 682B valve was from a 19th C German design. I see Meinlschmidt has been in business in 1866, so ...

Inasmuch as the fact that german trombones were trombone shaped and had valves, yes their valve is based on that fact.

How about this: Bousfield said the valve was based on a 19th C German design and we leave it at that?

Do we know what model he played before going to Getzen? I thought it was the 882 but it could be something custom. It wasn't the 682b.

I think it was a custom 882

I think IB ditched the 682 when he left the LSO and the Barbican.

Yam Canada tells me the 682G was the Alain Trudel model.

Bach5G wrote: ↑Fri Mar 15, 2019 10:29 pm Yam Canada tells me the 682G was the Alain Trudel model.

Gee. I have one of them. How come I can't play like Alain Trudel?

BGuttman wrote: ↑Fri Mar 15, 2019 10:55 pm

Bach5G wrote: ↑Fri Mar 15, 2019 10:29 pm Yam Canada tells me the 682G was the Alain Trudel model.

Gee. I have one of them. How come I can't play like Alain Trudel?

I suppose because you are not canadian.

He was using a modern 8H in 1998 when he came to the RNCM and did the LSO Shell Auditions.

But it was in a Yamaha Case!

Got one!!

Honey moon is over and I’m back to the Conn.

Accepting offers!!

conn88Hagmann wrote: ↑Sun Apr 11, 2021 3:29 am Got one!!

Honey moon is over and I’m back to the Conn.

So, how does it play compared to a Conn 88H?

I briefly played one at the Frankfurt Muziekmesse in 1998, I was really impressed by its tone, but went to Conn 8 or 88 a few years later...

The 682B and Minick rotors are based on the design by Thomas Dudley Paine, USA patent #5919, November 1848. Info from R. Dale Olson's 2016 book "Zig Kanstul: Last of the Great Masters".

sferg wrote: ↑Mon Apr 12, 2021 5:15 pm The 682B and Minick rotors are based on the design by Thomas Dudley Paine, USA patent #5919, November 1848. Info from R. Dale Olson's 2016 book "Zig Kanstul: Last of the Great Masters".

Fun! Pics etc here if anyone else is interested: https://patents.google.com/patent/US5919A/

Slidennis wrote: ↑Sun Apr 11, 2021 10:41 am

conn88Hagmann wrote: ↑Sun Apr 11, 2021 3:29 am Got one!!

Honey moon is over and I’m back to the Conn.

So, how does it play compared to a Conn 88H?

I briefly played one at the Frankfurt Muziekmesse in 1998, I was really impressed by its tone, but went to Conn 8 or 88 a few years later...

Imagine your Conn, but more open with a thicker bell. More weight in the slide centres the sound a little more and it slots easier . . .

conn88Hagmann wrote: ↑Tue Apr 13, 2021 12:12 pm

Slidennis wrote: ↑Sun Apr 11, 2021 10:41 am

So, how does it play compared to a Conn 88H?

I briefly played one at the Frankfurt Muziekmesse in 1998, I was really impressed by its tone, but went to Conn 8 or 88 a few years later...

Imagine your Conn, but more open with a thicker bell. More weight in the slide centres the sound a little more and it slots easier . . .

So, why are you back to the Conn then?

I use a 4762 dual bore slide, so I’m used to a bigger feel that I can achieve with a Yamaha. And in the UK almost everyone turns their nose up at a Yamaha. People listen with their eyes here, and As a freelancer it’s going to effect your work using one of these. Sad but true.

My friend has one of these that he sounds fantastic on. Clearly a good design for some!

harrisonreed wrote: ↑Fri Apr 16, 2021 4:38 am My friend has one of these that he sounds fantastic on. Clearly a good design for some!

Yup. I love my YSL-682B it plays darker and more symphonic than the 682G I also own. Heavier bell, can take a hellofa sound pressure.

I have a YSL682B, and have owned it since they were launched in the UK. In fact, my instrument was the actual one used on the Yamaha (actually, in those days, Bill Lewington) stand at the British Music Fair in 1992 ‐ I work in music retail and bought it at a greatly discounted price because it was effectively ex-display. It's a fantastic instrument with a great sound, and practically impossible to overblow.

I have one for sale if anyone is after a try out.

Great trombones. Just prefer the conns!