TromboneChat

I've been working on playing ballads lately. I play "dinner music" with our piano player before some of our big band gigs. Have to keep it soft and low key. Been doing a lot of listening. How do George Roberts and Carl Fontana (and others) get that beautiful soft fuzzy tone on there ballads. I've noticed it is not present on their up tempo straight ahead jazz recordings.

I would say lots of slow and warm air.

Only God knows how. We have to practice. Concentrate and try to do the basic carefully everyday. Use our own musicality and play melodies. Have a sound in our head. In the end it will give us our own beautiful voice maybe.

I think in the end it bowls down to what OP already do. Listen a lot to others, then try our self. Bigbandbone; just keep on with what you do and be patient

Leif

Since I haven't seen or heard you I can't really say what YOU need to do, but lots of soft playing helps. You can't do it with a "big band" mentality.

Relax your face a bit. "Corners of steel" is great for creating a laser-beam sound for big band/orchestra, but for this kind of playing you should have a bit more of a conversational feel for your embouchure. As others have said, lots of air. Be LESS efficient- in a way. Freer.

After seeing and hearing George Roberts live in the late 60's and talking with him I was amazed how his soft sound could project (without mic) to the last seat in an auditorium. He said it was all about the song and singing it clearly. My humble attempts using his solos in various venues, I put his sound in my head and tried to imitate it. Worked pretty good.

Later, after a professional career in loud big band, and loud orchestral music, I have found trouble duplicating that sound.

His best advice to me was to learn the lyrics and sing the song like Frank Sinatra or Nat King Cole. They were never loud (miked or not) but every note and phrase was clear and told the story.

Jimprindle wrote: ↑Sun Mar 17, 2019 4:32 pm After seeing and hearing George Roberts live in the late 60's and talking with him I was amazed how his soft sound could project (without mic) to the last seat in an auditorium. He said it was all about the song and singing it clearly. My humble attempts using his solos in various venues, I put his sound in my head and tried to imitate it. Worked pretty good.

Later, after a professional career in loud big band, and loud orchestral music, I have found trouble duplicating that sound.

His best advice to me was to learn the lyrics and sing the song like Frank Sinatra or Nat King Cole. They were never loud (miked or not) but every note and phrase was clear and told the story.

As a vocalist and a trombone player, this resonates deep within but really never considered it much...

Thanks for sharing that priceless bit of wisdom.

George Roberts.... probably the best bass trombone sound ever. That's never going to be easy to copy.... sit back and take a lifetime trying to get there.... I have...still trying

Chris

Just so's were on the same page here...

Bigbandbone, are you trying to replicate GR's sound on Bottoms Up?

Well, for Fontana ballads, his dad told him to play them like he was playing for his best girl. Seems to make a difference.

As for being heard, his sound sticks out to me for two main reasons. One is that the vowel sound he plays tends toward "ooo" where most trombone sounds are "ah" or "uh". But probably more important is the phenomenal amount of personalization he brought to his notes. On second or third in a section I often hear him basically misbehaving and not aping the lead but providing a much more hip interpretation that really the lead ought to adopt. As a result he really sticks out. But he makes himself a great example for any listening lead to borrow from. This personalization is the kind of thing that begins at the beginning of a note and continues for the entire duration to the end, where numerous choices are made along the way, some of which convey rhythm during the sustain, so when the guy played quarters, they swung hellaciously.

JohnL wrote: ↑Mon Mar 18, 2019 4:55 pm Just so's were on the same page here...

Bigbandbone, are you trying to replicate GR's sound on Bottoms Up?

No, Rainy Day.

I thought I'd add this beauty to the conversation.

I played a cover of GR's version of Rainy Day last night with our piano player and drummer (just brushes on snare). Kept his sound in my head, really relaxed my chops, and let my cheeks puff out a bit. It went well. Kind of exciting. Very different from the focused/penetrating sound I strive for in the big band.
Thanks for all the advice!

Great to hear George playing Stella I've previously only heard the version on the Paul Cacia Kenton tribute album.
He always makes it sound effortless ........ The Master

BellEnd

While everyone, links to solos (youtube of old tv shows has horror sound) I like the audio links. click the included link.
http://trombone-usa.com/roberts_george.htm

There's reason, he was the go to guy, for studio recording. Proof you don't have to be loud, to make an impact, on a recording.