TromboneChat

Hello!

I'm looking for a trombone with a bore size of 0,525 and f/attachment.
A large bore trombone with F/attachment but the smallest as possible.

I love the Rath R3F but with which other trombones can I compare it to?

Thanks!!!!

Bach 36B
Conn 79H
King 3B/F+, this one is smaller in the bell

Yamaha YSL-640

King 607, 608
Benge 175F
Holton TR-165

You can get a SL2525 slide for a Conn 88H which is 0.525".

Custom makers like Shires often offer 0.525" slides for the large tenor.

Note that King 3B+ F is no longer made. The only model with F is 2125F, not 3BPL Benge and Holton have been discontinued, but are often found on the used market.

Also note that most 0.525" bore instruments take small shank mouthpieces. If you want to use a large shank mouthpiece they need to be altered.

Wow I didn't know that...
So the Rath R3F is a small bore trombone with small shank mouthpiece?

BGuttman wrote: ↑Tue Apr 09, 2019 3:47 am King 607, 608
Benge 175F
Holton TR-165

You can get a SL2525 slide for a Conn 88H which is 0.525".

Custom makers like Shires often offer 0.525" slides for the large tenor.

Note that King 3B+ F is no longer made. The only model with F is 2125F, not 3BPL Benge and Holton have been discontinued, but are often found on the used market.

Also note that most 0.525" bore instruments take small shank mouthpieces. If you want to use a large shank mouthpiece they need to be altered.

The R3 slide can use either a large or small shank lead pipe. I have 1 of each, along with an 8.5" Rath bell. 90% of the time, I use the small shank and 8" bell. I love that horn. But a nice used Bach 36B can be had for well under $2K and is also a fantastic option.

I too have an R3F and prefer it to all my other trombones . Being modular everything is tailored to how I want it to look and sound.

The Courtois AC260BO is a 0.525 bore with F attachment and not a bad price.

The Shires .525" slide can use a lead pipe for small or large shank. The modularity is great - if you find that a larger slide will suit a particular need you can simply add a slide instead of an entire new instrument. One of the easiest blowing and most versatile instruments I've ever owner was a .525" Shires with a 8" red brass bell.

'I use a King 3b+f and absolutely love that horn.

My main axe is an 88h with a 525 slide. Great horn. I used to play a 79h. Also a great horn. I think the 88h has a greater expressive range, which in this context means you have more control over the sound.

I've played a Shires like Sterb mentioned, and it was very 88h-ish with the 547 slide.

I also loved the R3 I've played. Really great horn.

But I think the best 525 I've ever played was an M&W at this last ATW. Really fantastic horn. Kind of between the lightness of a 88hw/525 and the best 36b you've ever played.

King still makes horns in that size. The King 607F and 608F trombone has a .525-inch bore with a standard wrap F attachment. The 607F has an 8-inch yellow brass bell, the 608F has a rose brass bell. Another option to consider if on a budget.

Kingfan, I especially like where the trigger is on the King and rose brass is a nice touch. I want one now!

I have a relatively new King 3B+, I have considered to mod it with the Olsen Valve if such thing could be done. On another note, I though Edwards built a 0.525 with axial?

Bach42t wrote: ↑Wed Apr 10, 2019 6:27 am I have a relatively new King 3B+, I have considered to mod it with the Olsen Valve if such thing could be done. On another note, I though Edwards built a 0.525 with axial?

Sure it's possible; most medium bore horns have valves of that size, but the King 3b+ has a valve and tubing of .530 so it's one of the times such a change would be pretty big. You'd also have to replace all of the tubing with more appropriately sized tubing.

Why are you thinking about changing the valves out? In my experience the King rotors are usually quite well done and work very well. I had a King 3BF that had one of the best low ranges on any horn I've ever tried although it was admittedly a little on the bright side. I mean, compared to a bass trombone not compared to other 508 horns!

Also, yes the T327 is just the T350 with a 525 slide. So all of the rotary, tuning slide, and bell components are fully interchangeable with the T327, including axials.

I have an Edwards 525 horn, it is indeed called the T327. Only real difference to the T350 is the slide tube bores and the bells are 8" instead of 8.5. I normally leave the valve off but can mix and match with the T350's axial just fine. You could also get a rotor for it from Edwards if thayers aren't your jam.

I like it a lot. It isn't the best .525 I've ever played (Bach NY67 36 gets that honor), but it's pretty great. It plays like a smaller symphony horn, not a big jazz horn, though I've used it just fine in big band. Think a more symphony oriented 36 and you're on the right track....though obviously can tune its behavior with lighter bell, lighter slide, change this, change that, etc etc.

Matt K wrote: ↑Wed Apr 10, 2019 7:48 am

Bach42t wrote: ↑Wed Apr 10, 2019 6:27 am I have a relatively new King 3B+, I have considered to mod it with the Olsen Valve if such thing could be done. On another note, I though Edwards built a 0.525 with axial?

Why are you thinking about changing the valves out? In my experience the King rotors are usually quite well done and work very well. I had a King 3BF that had one of the best low ranges on any horn I've ever tried although it was admittedly a little on the bright side. I mean, compared to a bass trombone not compared to other 508 horns!

I'm sorry I should've clarified a bit, I have the straight version, no F attachment. I have to admit though, I would consider it an "odd duck" with a custom valve on it. I'll just keep it in dreams.

Bach42t wrote: ↑Fri Apr 12, 2019 7:32 pm

Matt K wrote: ↑Wed Apr 10, 2019 7:48 am Why are you thinking about changing the valves out? In my experience the King rotors are usually quite well done and work very well. I had a King 3BF that had one of the best low ranges on any horn I've ever tried although it was admittedly a little on the bright side. I mean, compared to a bass trombone not compared to other 508 horns!

I'm sorry I should've clarified a bit, I have the straight version, no F attachment. I have to admit though, I would consider it an "odd duck" with a custom valve on it. I'll just keep it in dreams.

If you need a stock 3B rotor + tubing, I have one assembled that would fit right on the horn. Your tech would just have to order the neckpipe... although I might have that part too. I'd be willing to part with if you send me an email.

I'm not very interested in new horns because the current high prices. The best old .525 horn I have is a Bach 36BO from the early 2000. Other good old horns are the Conn 79h and the Benge 175f. The Yamaha 356R is a dual bore 500/525. The best choice for the money.

/Tom

There are several Getzen 725s for sale. It is a dual bore--525/547. Not terribly expensive.

walldaja wrote: ↑Sat Apr 13, 2019 6:17 am There are several Getzen 725s for sale. It is a dual bore--525/547. Not terribly expensive.

And also, IMO, not terribly good.

Burgerbob, noted. Glad I didn't bid on one I was looking at!

Common trend for me but I think its largely the leadpipe. Very similar design to some of the Yamahas. Very 90s horn if I remember right. Fairly heavy bell, or at least medium+ bell, pipe leaves super open partials. Replacing it with an Edwards 2 or something would probably help. But the cork barrel doesn't allow for easily inserting a collar so if there are other options possibly worth exploring those. Especially if you want large shank

Conn 50H is a nice player and is a reasonably priced option if you can find a nice one. 8.5" bell, narrow brass slide crook and no oversleeves on most of them. When compared to my 79H, I'd say it has a more compact sound. Pair the 79H slide with the the 50H bell section and it opens up nicely. I have found the 50H slide does not like the larger mouthpiece I use on the 79H and I'd guess that is in the lead pipe.

Burgerbob wrote: ↑Sat Apr 13, 2019 11:03 am

walldaja wrote: ↑Sat Apr 13, 2019 6:17 am There are several Getzen 725s for sale. It is a dual bore--525/547. Not terribly expensive.

And also, IMO, not terribly good.

Really? The bell section is the same as the old Canadian brass horns, same tuning slide and flare as other Getzen/Edwards large bores.

I don't much care for the lighter slide and leadpipe, but overall this is one of my favorite values in the Getzen line-up.

Cheers,
Andy

That was my experience, too. I played one and thought it was dreadful.

elmsandr wrote: ↑Wed Apr 17, 2019 2:47 pm

Burgerbob wrote: ↑Sat Apr 13, 2019 11:03 am And also, IMO, not terribly good.

Really? The bell section is the same as the old Canadian brass horns, same tuning slide and flare as other Getzen/Edwards large bores.

I don't much care for the lighter slide and leadpipe, but overall this is one of my favorite values in the Getzen line-up.

Cheers,
Andy

I've played and played with the Canadian Brass horn too. Same thoughts there. Yuck.

I had a Conn 50h for a while, just to give me a slightly different voice than my King 2b plus provides. I did not use the f attachment a great deal and you should know that the linkage relies on a string mechanism from the trigger to the valves. I acquired it for $350 and sold it a few years later for the same amount. There is definitely a market for cheaper, but quality, f attachment horns, so it wouldn't be too risky an experiment.