Slide inner tubes

[PNeiteler]

There is not a lot of information available about the impact of different slide material or wall thickness of INNER side tubes. As we can see a lot of experimenting with different outer side tubes of various trombone manufacturers nearly nobody is focusing on the inner side tubes. As far as I know most of them are made from nickel silver and were chrome plated, however sometimes there are hints that brass has been used. But I could never find any hints in which way a different inner slide material, a different gauge or a different chrome plating thickness has an impact on sound or playing behavior.
Is there any knowledge available on this forum which could be shared?

[Doug Elliott]

Mechanical considerations win that game. Nickel silver tubes and chrome plating are used for very good reasons. As far as I know the only trombones that use brass inner tubes are cheap student horns.

[LeoInFL]

I recall a European manufacturer that used gold/yellow tinted inner slide tubes. Can't remember the alloy that was used. I think it may have been modular too.

[LeTromboniste]

It's kind of hard to answer this question as it's nearly impossible to compare instruments with brass inners against others with chrome-plated nickel silver inners that are otherwise identical. Any comparison will involve horns that are different in many other regards, in quality, design and/or vintage

I can speak for what the difference is on sackbuts, but I'm not sure you can assume the effect would be the same on a modern trombone. On sackbut replicas that are otherwise identical (and even using the same bell to test both slides), modern chrome-plated nickel silver inners will give slightly more brigthness to the tone and a slightly more direct response and conversely the historical-style unplated brass inners, without being stuffy, tend to have less direct response and more complex tone.

Mechanical considerations win that game. Nickel silver tubes and chrome plating are used for very good reasons.

I'm not so sure about that. Raw brass slides do require more maintenance, but when they are properly cared for they can have very good mechanical action. Maybe not a 10/10 equivalent to the best new chrome-plated slide, but they can be a solid 8 or even 9/10 equivalent to good vintage slides which many players are very comfortable accepting as good enough if the horn feels and sounds the way they want. In the long term, chrome plating wears off and the action degrades and little can be done to remedy that until the action is too bad and tubes need changing. Unplated slides can be polished back to their original state and quality of action (assuming the surface is the only issue and not alignment problems).

I doubt it'll happen as it would be risky commercially, but I'd love to see some of the boutique makers experimenting with and offering inner slides from different materials, from seamed tubing (vs. extruded), and yes, even unplated slides, so people can actually try and see if the difference in sound is desirable and in the case of unplated slides, if so, if it's worth the extra maintenance.

[Burgerbob]

I recall a European manufacturer that used gold/yellow tinted inner slide tubes. Can't remember the alloy that was used. I think it may have been modular too.

Willson used a titanium nitride? coating on their slide tubes. Not even sure if they still make trombones, and certainly no one else has picked up on that.

[Bonearzt]

Weril in Brazil also experimented with them, not sure what became of them.

[Doug Elliott]

Wilson is still making trombones but they discontinued the TiN coating.

My previous post was referring to the fact that nickel silver inners are more stable, less likely to bend or dent, and chrome plating is a lower friction and longer lasting surface.

[JohnL]

My previous post was referring to the fact that nickel silver inners are more stable, less likely to bend or dent, and chrome plating is a lower friction and longer lasting surface.

Pretty sure they're more resistant to corrosion, too.

With the proper care (i.e., getting dents and alignment issues dealt with in a timely manner, as well as good general maintenance), the chrome plate on the inners will last a very long time.

[PNeiteler]

I recall a European manufacturer that used gold/yellow tinted inner slide tubes. Can't remember the alloy that was used. I think it may have been modular too.

Haag from Switzerland is using Brass/Bronze (means tin in this case) for his jazz-trombone only (https://www.blaswerkhaag.ch/musik-haag/ ... /posaunen/).
Also wall thickness of 0.25 mm of nickel silver tubes seems to be quite a standard.
We are experimenting with many different gauges for the bell material, but on the inner tubes we are not doing it.

[Dennis]

Willson used a titanium nitride? coating on their slide tubes. Not even sure if they still make trombones, and certainly no one else has picked up on that.

TiN has a lower coefficient of friction than even chromium, but it's an added step in processing. TiN is applied in a high temperature sputtering process. It's apparently pretty corrosive, so brass has to be chrome plated before the TiN can be applied.

If TiN could be applied directly to brass it might be different. Plating processes, especially with toxic heavy metals like Cr, are environmentally unfriendly.