Bach 50 vs Holton 181
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Elow
- Posts: 1897
- Joined: Mon Mar 02, 2020 6:18 am
Bach 50 vs Holton 181
I have the choice between a bach 50 with thayers and Eb and F tuning and a Holton 181 with a cut bell in my area and was wondering about the reputation on both these horns and any experiences anyones had with these.
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Elow
- Posts: 1897
- Joined: Mon Mar 02, 2020 6:18 am
Re: Bach 50 vs Holton 181
When i try them ill decide from that so no decisions bare being made here just curious what everyone has to say about these horns.
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paulyg
- Posts: 684
- Joined: Thu May 17, 2018 12:30 pm
Re: Bach 50 vs Holton 181
Couple "buyer beware" things.
Old Thayers can be great... but more often than not, they've been neglected and have worn to the point where they no longer seal. Grab the spindle and check for any fore-aft motion- this will indicate badly shot bearing surfaces.
The screw bell horn can be great if you want to do any traveling.
As far as the merits of the two horns, it's more a matter of personal taste. In the US, the Holton 181's generally "hotter" sound makes it more at home in Jazz and Commercial settings, while the traditional core of the Bach is most at home in an American-style orchestra section. Of course, if you're at the level where you can tell the difference between the two sounds, then you shouldn't let anyone here tell you what to do.
Personally, I'd pick the one with the better slide.
Old Thayers can be great... but more often than not, they've been neglected and have worn to the point where they no longer seal. Grab the spindle and check for any fore-aft motion- this will indicate badly shot bearing surfaces.
The screw bell horn can be great if you want to do any traveling.
As far as the merits of the two horns, it's more a matter of personal taste. In the US, the Holton 181's generally "hotter" sound makes it more at home in Jazz and Commercial settings, while the traditional core of the Bach is most at home in an American-style orchestra section. Of course, if you're at the level where you can tell the difference between the two sounds, then you shouldn't let anyone here tell you what to do.
Personally, I'd pick the one with the better slide.
Paul Gilles
Aerospace Engineer & Trombone Player
Aerospace Engineer & Trombone Player
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FullPedalTrombonist
- Posts: 152
- Joined: Fri Mar 23, 2018 2:28 pm
Re: Bach 50 vs Holton 181
Personally I’d choose the 50 if you like them both about the same.
Taking some braces off the valve section on the 281 can really help it out, but there are things I don’t like about that model that aren’t as easy to fix/change. I use one of those Holton screw bells on my main horn. I like it a lot. There are Holtons that I’ve found incredible, but they aren’t based around the 181.
If the Thayer valves are in good condition it could be a situation where changing out the valves to something more easily serviceable with parts that are still made could be worth it to have the whole deal. Shot Thayer valves cause a lot of issues, though. I’ve hunted enough and found 50s that are great and some not. I didn’t like the 50T3 I tried, but there are so many more out there.
When you try them out let us know!
Taking some braces off the valve section on the 281 can really help it out, but there are things I don’t like about that model that aren’t as easy to fix/change. I use one of those Holton screw bells on my main horn. I like it a lot. There are Holtons that I’ve found incredible, but they aren’t based around the 181.
If the Thayer valves are in good condition it could be a situation where changing out the valves to something more easily serviceable with parts that are still made could be worth it to have the whole deal. Shot Thayer valves cause a lot of issues, though. I’ve hunted enough and found 50s that are great and some not. I didn’t like the 50T3 I tried, but there are so many more out there.
When you try them out let us know!
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mrdeacon
- Posts: 1115
- Joined: Tue May 08, 2018 2:05 am
- Location: Los Angeles, California
Re: Bach 50 vs Holton 181
What's the price on the two horns? I would almost make your decision based off of that!
Rath R1, Rath R3, Rath R4, Rath R9, Minick Bass Trombone
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modelerdc
- Posts: 302
- Joined: Thu May 03, 2018 9:34 pm
Re: Bach 50 vs Holton 181
All other things equal I'd take the Bach over the Holton. But, there are good Bachs and there are dogs. You may love or hate the thayer valves. I like the sound of the Holtons, but don't like the ergonomics. If the Holton is a factory screw bell it's not a TR181 it's a TR281. Play them both for yourself!