Ergonomic Alternatives

[hyperbolica]

25 years ago I had a bad crash on a bicycle, and busted my collar bone, smashed my head on a rock (with a helmet thankfully) and lost a fair patch of skin on my leg and arm. Since then, I've slowly been developing symptoms of a pinched nerve in my neck. Playing bass bone the last 5 years hasn't helped things.

I've already got the Get-A-Grip and an Ergobone, and I think the lightest production double valve bass bone (aside from a Butler) that there is. I think my future is going to require an ergonomic alternative to the bass trombone. Butler helps with the weight, but doesn't change the position, which is at least part of the problem.

So I've got some alternatives:

- stop playing bass bone
- play tuba instead
- play cimbasso
- play some wacky Wessex F travel tuba that sounds like a cimbasso
- frankenstein a small tuba with a baritone horn to get a lap cimbasso/bass baritone Jim Self sort of thing.


Are there other alternatives out there? Most of my playing is brass chamber music, small orchestra, trombone choir, and big band.

I've already taken up valve-front euphonium as a tenor alternative. But the compensating range is kind of iffy (stuffy), which makes me question why compensating euphs are so popular.

[slipperyjoe]

Orenophone!

http://orenmarshall.com

[hyperbolica]

Yes, I'm open to a "Seuss-a-phone" sort of thing.

[BGuttman]

I'd suggest an "inverse Cimbasso": have a tech make a 90 degree bend at the bell joint so the back of the trombone goes down toward the floor while the slide is in normal position. If you need to protect the tuning slide from being pushed in while playing, mount a support rod on the gooseneck like a sort-of Stewart Stand. Wish my CAD skills were better so I could draw this up for you. Yes, the trombone becomes a Bell-Up ("Raincatcher") instrument.

[mrdeacon]

Well if ergo bone is a no go... Have you exhausted the possibility of using a single valved bass? I know it's not a 100% fix but you can't really substitute a bass trombone in a group.

Old Holtons and some old Conns (not all) are absurdly light. I had a early TR185 which might have been the lightest horn I've ever owned. Even beating out most tenors I've owned.

I've recently started using both a Ax Handle and a leather strap for tenor and bass and it seems to be helping a lot keeping the horn up. Sometimes you just have to be really strapped in.

[Finetales]

I would think getting a bass trombonium Frankensteined together would make the most sense, as you could make it sound closer to a bass trombone than a cimbasso and have it made as light and ergonomic as possible specifically for you. Plus, it's by far the coolest option.

JC Sherman made one in Eb that looks great, and he also made a BBb cimbasso with an incredibly compact (smaller than a euph) wrap. I think if you worked with a great tech you could make something great that fits your needs perfectly.

But the compensating range is kind of iffy (stuffy), which makes me question why compensating euphs are so popular.

Just gotta get used to it; it's obviously very different than a bass trombone's low register. My compensating euph has a bangin' tuba register and I've used it to play bass trombone parts in trombone quartets and even tuba parts in recording sessions, and it's a riotous amount of fun (and not hard work).

[hyperbolica]

Have you exhausted the possibility of using a single valved bass?

yeah, I had a 70h with an Eb crook. I think it's the position of the left elbow more than the weight.

I've considered the C bass idea Pete Edwards showed. I've got a horn that would be a good donor for that.

I would think getting a bass trombonium Frankensteined together would make the most sense,

The Wessex Bubbie 5 is almost that exactly. I should probably just get one of those. They're fairly cheap and very close to exactly what I need.


On euph, a big (1.25) mouthpiece almost gets me there. My horn has a great pedal range, but B on the staff (24) is unplayable. Might be a valve alignment or something stuck in a tube somewhere.

[johntarr]

While I think trombone ergonomics are not the most human friendly, I wonder if you have looked into other factors that may aggravate your conditions. Are there things you do when not playing the trombone that are detrimental to your wellbeing, such as typing or other mundane tasks? What position(s) are your arms in when you sleep? Are you doing any kind of exercise or restorative practice to balance out the asymmetries of holding a trombone?

For an example of how rehabilitation/prevention could be, I recommend listening to this podcast. https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/t ... 0473416499

I hope you find solutions,

John

[TheBoneRanger]

The Wessex Bubbie 5 is almost that exactly. I should probably just get one of those. They're fairly cheap and very close to exactly what I need.

Make sure you try before you buy. I’ve played a version of this horn, and it was a bear to play. I’ve never played a low brass instrument with so much resistance before, trombones included. I can’t imagine playing a horn like that as my main axe - or at all.

Andrew

[TheBoneRanger]

I’m sorry to hear about your ailment.

Your choice of solution will, of course, depend on how wedded you are to playing bass trombone. It sounds like you’d consider a different horn, so you have some options. I’ll also assume you’ve exhausted various physiotherapy/rehab options. Here’s some thoughts that spring to mind:

- Have you spoken to a creative tech/repair guy? My guy loves a challenge, and I’d love to see what he could do if I went to him and said “I can’t hold this horn anymore unless I can put my arm in a completely different position.” I don’t know your limitations, of course, but it would be worth the chat

- Would the same issue present if you were to play left handed?

- Play tuba. I play quite a bit, and it can be such a joy. Loads of options in sizes and keys, high and low horns, and if you’re playing in ensembles, it’s a really fun role. If I had my time again, I might just have never picked up a trombone.

I don’t think any of these frankenhorn/cimbassos etc would please me, especially if you intend to play in ensembles. I wouldn’t really like to play next to one in a band/orchestra, either. How do I blend with that?

Hope that helps. Good luck going forward.

Andrew

[hyperbolica]

While I think trombone ergonomics are not the most human friendly, I wonder if you have looked into other factors that may aggravate your conditions. Are there things you do when not playing the trombone that are detrimental to your wellbeing, such as typing or other mundane tasks?

John, thanks. I went to a massage person, and they declared it beyond something they could fix. I tried physical therapy, and the same thing after a few sessions. Sleeping on one side and reading my phone both aggravate the condition, so I avoid those.

This came up last year as well, and I got a cortisone shot. It was about $4k, and like a surgical procedure. The shot has lasted for several months, but I can feel it deteriorating month by month. They will only give you so many cortisone shots, and then it's surgery.

- Play tuba. I play quite a bit, and it can be such a joy. Loads of options in sizes and keys, high and low horns, and if you’re playing in ensembles, it’s a really fun role. If I had my time again, I might just have never picked up a trombone.

Andrew, That's an option. I've had 3 aborted attempts at tuba, but I chalk that up to getting educated. There is so much to know about tuba.

The Wessex thing is actually called a "travel tuba", although it's somewhat more of a bass baritone horn. I've heard good and bad about it, but more good about the new version. The new version has a 5th valve for intonation and switching from F to Eb, a larger bore, and a larger bell than the original. I haven't been any place where the horn was to be able to try one, but It might be a partial solution. Maybe a small BBb tuba. I'll have to compare. I'm not a very enthusiastic bass bone player, but one of the groups I love most needs a bass.

I don't think a tuba/cimbasso thing would be a big blending problem, as a bass voice has more options. Nothing can really replace a slide trombone idiomatically, but you can play differently to make the instrument you've got fit the situation. Small tuba might be the best bet to fit all the groups where I play bass.

I also play tenor in some groups, and tenor also doesn't help, although it hurts less. It's the position of the left arm. I've never really considered playing left handed. It would be like learning all over again.

Thanks all for your interest and suggestions.

[Posaunus]

Matt,

So sorry to learn about your physical woes. Hope you find a solution (or two) that works. Unfortunately, I have no suggestions. My concern is not the aftereffects of injury, but the normal process of aging. How much longer can I enjoy my trombone-playing passion with sliding downhill?

Sympathy and blessings.

[BGuttman]

Sometimes you need a little help from your friends. I need to use a walker and use a cart to carry trombone, trombone stand, music stand, mute bag, etc. People will offer to pull my cart to the venue for me. I had one associate who needed an Ergobone to hold his Yamaha 354 (he used to have a much nicer horn but his chops gave out and it was too much). He was playing almost until he passed away in his 80s, although at a reduced amount. I have another colleague with essential tremor who manages (somehow) to continue playing. We all had to get over the "i'm good enough that I need to play 1st" conceit that many of us have. I now just play whatever is put in front of me. I hope getting my cataracts repaired will help me read music better.