Olds Recording R20

[Jmindeman]

Hello. Has anyone played a 60's-70's Olds R20 Recording with f attachment? What are your impressions? Thanks.

[JohnL]

I used one for a few years playing in a local big band (not one you're likely to have ever heard of), including a couple years on lead. I didn't switch to a different horn, I just stopped playing with that band. The R-20 is still my go-to horn for some things, it's just that I don't do those things that often these days.

The mouthpiece receiver is a bit undersize, so standard mouthpiece don't go in quite as far as on a regular receiver. That causes problems for some people but not for others (never really bothered me).

If you need to cut through, it'll do it for you. If you need to blend, it'll do that, too. I consider the trigger register entirely usable, though the notes tend to be barky.

The listen-with-their-eyes crowd sees the 8.5" bell and the f-attachment and just assumes that it's a symphony-bore tenor, so I sometimes refer to it as a "stealth small bore".

[Jmindeman]

Thanks!

[imsevimse]

I have an R20. It was sold as a bass trombone when it was made. It does not sound at all like a modern bass not even close to a large bore. It is small dual bore horn with f-attachment and oversized bell. I think bore is .495/.510 (from memory). I think my horn suffers from the strange receiver.

/Tom

[JohnL]

In some ways, the R-20 veers toward German "tenor posaune" territory. The bore is .495"/.510" (12.6 mm/12.95 mm) which, along with the 8.5" (216 mm) bell, isn't too far removed from the typical "Weite 2". The Lätzsch SL-250 is 12,4 mm/12,9 mm (.488"/.508") with a 220 mm (8.66") bell. The slide vs. bell proportions are more "American".

You'd never mistake it for a tenor posaune, but it shades more in that direction than just about any other American trombone. I've heard told that a fair portion of Olds' workforce in those days was from Central and Eastern Europe, so that may have colored some of the design choices.

[Arrowhead]

I have an R20. SN: 948903 (<-70's?)
Oddly enough, it does not require a special mp shank like every other Recording I have ever tried. So maybe at some point Olds switched over to a more common taper.
Very good horn.

[BflatBass]

Hello. Has anyone played a 60's-70's Olds R20 Recording with f attachment? What are your impressions? Thanks.

Funny you should ask about this horn because a guy in one of my community bands uses one and I got into a conversation with him about it because I'd never seen one before and I thought it was an interesting horn. I took a picture of it with my phone to see if anyone here has used one but you beat me to it .
I've also never seen so much rose or red brass used on a trombone especially in the valve rap. He said he's seen other R20's that were all yellow brass, Including the bell. He also said that, according to his research, his was made sometime in the early 1960's. He said he picked it up at a local pawn shop for $200.

[Davidus1]

Hello. Has anyone played a 60's-70's Olds R20 Recording with f attachment? What are your impressions? Thanks.

Funny you should ask about this horn because a guy in one of my community bands uses one and I got into a conversation with him about it because I'd never seen one before and I thought it was an interesting horn. I took a picture of it with my phone to see if anyone here has used one but you beat me to it .
I've also never seen so much rose or red brass used on a trombone especially in the valve rap. He said he's seen other R20's that were all yellow brass, Including the bell. He also said that, according to his research, his was made sometime in the early 1960's. He said he picked it up at a local pawn shop for $200.

You may have seen this link but it has some great pictures and info about the Olds horns.

http://www.itsabear.com/Olds_Docs/Olds1970.pdf

I am interested in a straight Recording horn but haven't been able to play one.

[DrTbone43]

I found my R20 trombone this Summer looking on Craigslist. Fella used the horn for two years in junior high school in the late fifties. Horn was stored in case since use. When I found it the horn was in immaculate condition, like new with original paperwork in the original case. Plays very nice. Will try it out in the big band this Fall. Plays open, nice upper register, short throw with f valve. The finish and metal color makes this a beautiful horn. It's a keeper.

[JohnL]

He said he's seen other R20's that were all yellow brass, Including the bell.

All yellow brass would be an A20 Ambasssador.

[mrdeacon]

He said he's seen other R20's that were all yellow brass, Including the bell.

All yellow brass would be an A20 Ambasssador.

Are the A20s the same bore size, tuning slide and bell mandrel as the R20, just everything is yellow brass?

[BGuttman]

My A-20 had an oval bell brace (R-20 is shown with a round brace).

On mine only one tuning slide on the attachment worked (you need two to get to E).

But my A20 was LA and may have been a little different from most.

[JohnL]

Are the A20s the same bore size, tuning slide and bell mandrel as the R20, just everything is yellow brass?

Yup. Different braces, and most A-20's only have one tuning slide in the f-attachment. Most A-20's also have a finger ring underneath the mouthpiece receiver. Unless one takes the time to examine the instrument closely, or is familiar with Olds products, it pretty much looks like a yellow brass R-20.

I have heard tell of A-20's with .510"/.525" slides, but all of the Olds literature I've seen says .495"/.510", and I've never personally measured an A-20 that wasn't .495"/.510". I've seen too much oddball stuff out of both the LA and Fullerton eras to argue that the larger bore version doesn't exist; I've just never seen convincing evidence of it.

[imsevimse]

Hello

I posted in this thread two years ago. I do an update. In these strange times I have had time to try my "not-so-much-played" trombones and I picked this R 20 and have played it for a couple of weeks now.. It is a great instrument and after a good cleaning it improved a lot I bought the horn off eBay 2013-2014 and must have missed something in the cleaning procedure. A clean leadpipe makes a big difference. It plays very well with the Bach 11C-ish Yamaha Nils Landren signature mouthpiece, and I can not se anything strange with the receiver. The mouthpiece fits.

/Tom

[PhilE]

I bought my R20 from off ebay a few years ago.
The previous owner replaced the multi sided inner tubes with round ones. The slide moves freely enough.
It came with an Olds No.3 mouthpiece and had the original leadpipe installed.
I would like to know if the pipe leading into the valve is supposed to be as kinked as this one appears to be.
I've looked at a few pictures on the net and they do look a bit similar.
It just doesn't look like a normal brass instrument tube bend.
I've not been able to get a good sound out of it.
Do you think it is right or has it been deformed somehow?
Thanks
Phil

[PhilE]

This is the other side of the valve.
There are no other signs of damage or stress on the instrument.
The valve moves freely and is aligned with the marks on the side plate.
This R20 is from 1957

[JohnL]

I would like to know if the pipe leading into the valve is supposed to be as kinked as this one appears to be.

The bend itself looks normal (for an R20), but it's not supposed to have a wrinkle in it like I see in the second picture. That horn's been hurt at some point. There could be a crack in that wrinkle. It's also possible that one of more solder joints in the valve area have popped. Finally, incidents like the one that caused the wrinkle can also deform the valve casing and cause the valve to bind. If that did happen, the valve may have been lapped to free it up. That can sometimes result in too much clearance (thus a leaky valve).

[PhilE]

Thanks for that.
That's a good point about the valve clearance.
I can get a good clean upper register above tuning B flat but below F in the staff it is very airy and just doesn't want to go there.

[JohnL]

I can get a good clean upper register above tuning B flat but below F in the staff it is very airy and just doesn't want to go there.

If you do take it to a tech, ask them to check the replacement inners to make sure the stockings are a good match for the outer slides. I've got an otherwise fantastic pre-WWII Olds Self-Balancing with f-attachment that was the victim of a bad retube job. Might want to have them check to see if the leadpipe was fitted correctly, too.

[imsevimse]

Be sure to clean the leadpipe with a brush. The valve on my R20 looks the same as yours except the wrinkle. The register is even. Works great on the valve too, the only problem is the long turn when you press the trigger. It's a long throw. It gets better when I move my thump to the middle of the arm or as close to the valve as possible. It is less motion with the thumb. I would not rely on this horn if there was a need of a lot of fast trigger work though. It is odd Olds marketed this as a bass trombone. It's as if King had marketed a King 3b/f as a bass because of the valve My Olds R20 is from the 70-ies and then there were lots of .565 bass trombones to choose from. The trigger notes are there as it is on a King 3b/f but I would not have bought this as a bass in the 70-ies.

/Tom