King 3B and alternatives

[Diana6]

My son is a junior in high school. He plays in the orchestra, marching band, and jazz band, although this year was a total wash. His school cancelled all music programs. Hopefully next year will be different.

At this point, I'm looking towards college. He will not be a music major, but will try to find a school with some type of band for a trombone. He has an Olds Special (1964), a King 606 for marching (70's), and a Yamaha 356R (70's). All are in really nice condition and I bought all three, plus tech service for around $1000.

He prefers a straight trombone. The 356R doesn't get much love. The Special fell out of favor and he now prefers the King 606.

We are thinking about selling all three and looking for a King 3B or something similar for college and beyond.

I'm looking for suggestions for any other similar trombones. Out budget will be around $1000. We'll probably wait until after high school, but I'd like to keep an eye out for a good deal on a good horn, whenever one pops up.

Any suggestions would be much appreciated. What years are best for a King 3B in this price range?

[Vegasbound]

Contact DJ Kennedy, he will have the 3b for your son.....he is the trombone whisperer and has the ability to put the right horn in the hands of a player....he also is the source for great vintage Kings to suit all budgets

[Kingfan]

You might want to wait to see which college he goes to and get horn/horns based on their music program. That said, I suggest keeping the Yamaha if you can afford to because a large bore tenor will give him opportunities for orchestral and wind ensemble playing in college and beyond a 3B isn't suited for. That, and a 3B for jazz, and the 606 for marching, gives him a great selection of horns for any occasion. Many players on a budget use a Yamaha 200AD or 354 student horn for jazz - they play better than their place in the Yamaha line indicates, and can be found for a quarter of an equivalent condition 3B would cost you. All this is just my opinion.

[JLivi]

$1000 is a healthy budget for a 3b. You should be able to find a horn in great condition, from a great era, for $600-800.

DJ Kennedy will be your guy, unless you want to post a "WTB 3b" post here to the classifieds, or search for a hidden gem on eBay or reverb. Good luck with your search!

It's also worth mentioning that the King 606 should be good enough for a college big band. I'm always impressed with 606's when I get a chance to play them. I've been on a 3b since my Junior year of high school (2004).

[Thrawn22]

Get a Conn 6H.

[BGuttman]

I also like keeping the 606 for jazz. If he's really into a new horn, look at the Yamaha 691 or 891, or Bach 16M as alternatives to a 3B. If the larger size isn't carved in stone, look into the 0.500" horns as well. The Jupiter XO 1632 seems to have good reviews.

[hyperbolica]

Alternatives would include Selmer Bolero, Yamaha 691 or 891z, maybe Conn 32h. Getzen 3508 or 1050, Bach 16m, Courtois 402. More expensive options might include Rath R2, Shires MD+, Edwards 302.

I've played most of these, and they are all excellent horns depending of course on condition. It will depend on his taste. My fav is the Courtois. I found one under $600. 3bs are. More plentiful than the rest. You should be able to find something nice that he will like for under or around $1000, depending on your diligence and patience. Best of luck.

[djkennedy]

I get it Diana !!!!
It’s kinda like Goldie Locks
The special is too small
The 356 is ok but not straight
The 606 is cool but not cool enuf !!!!!
3B is a very very solid well built
Versatile AND FANTASTIC
PROFESSIONAL MODEL
what the really translates is
Nickle silver outer slides
Chrome plated nickel silver inner slides
A design that goes back to 1954 and pretty much
Unchanged like Coke or Pepsi
Price wise there are usually many used ones
Available at any one time so I buy them often
And find homes for them !!!!!!!!!
This summer or not to long ago
I made up a 3B Menu listed serial numbers
description case and played them
Playing them is probably the most helpful
In matching with players
Every horn is different especially ones that
Have been produced that long
Certain ones are favored by Salsa players liking the loopy ropy era
Or jazz improvisation combo players. Liking
A lighter more flexible bell
Condition finish appearance case are factors
And liking JJ Johnson!!!!!!!!!!
3Bs are great !!!!!!
You have enough trade bait perhaps
Value depends on usual stuff
I like the 606 w nickle outers
356 recommend for step up especially girls
Special my favorite is the tu tones
Yes picky!!!!!!

[djkennedy]

HNWHITE are the most. Prized

[Bach5G]

DJ: 3Bs v 16s?

[Burgerbob]

DJ: 3Bs v 16s?

Apples and oranges, IMO. I have both and they do different things very well.

[JCBone]

I would hang onto the King 606 as it's a all around great horn. It makes a great beater for marching band and the better ones could also be used for jazz. I would also think twice about selling the Yamaha YSL356R as it would allow him to also play in orchestras if he choses to go that route. Another option would be to sell the Olds and the Yamaha and get a medium bore horn like a Bach 36B which is a good all-rounder. If he's set on getting a small bore horn then you can't go wrong with the King 3B. Other options include the Bach 16, Courtois AC402T, Yamaha YSL891Z, and the Getzen 3058. On the higher end of the sprectrum you have the Edwards T302, the Shires TBMDP, and the Rath R2.

[harrisonreed]

The 3B is basically magic

[BGuttman]

The 3B is basically magic

If you are a King person, a 3B is the chameleon of the trombone world. You can do almost anything on it (except play a convincing bass trombone part). Good commercial sound, good jazz sound, and even good light classical sound (for those 1st trombone parts originally intended for an alto trombone, pops concerts, and French repertoire originally intended for small bore trombone).

If you are a Bach person, the King 3B sounds too light.

Note that there are great players in all styles playing King 3Bs and Bach 16s.

[djkennedy]

Schmelzer
Shires
Holton galaxy
Besson 900 series 941
Yamaha 651 695 693 3530R
Conn 32H
Maybe go 522 or 525 bore
Of course limiting factor could be budget
And time
Don’t forget custom BAC
NOW WITH FINANCING !!!!!!!!!!!!!
Edwards too who who who r u
Oh conn 6H

[Reedman1]

An alternative no one has mentioned yet is a Carol Brass 2209. I have one, and like it. And a brand new one is under $1,000 at Dillon’s. Will people laugh at him because it’s not King, Bach, Yamaha, or a boutique horn? Maybe. But a good playing, well made horn for a good price is nice consolation for that.

[Goten56]

I would never buy a 3B for 1000$. For this price, you get very beaten up horns. But if you buy from a friend, or someone you trust, it could be OK. Also I think a 3BF is better, if he plays 3rd chair in a big band or something like that, but they are more expensive.

[Vegasbound]

I would never buy a 3B for 1000$. For this price, you get very beaten up horns. But if you buy from a friend, or someone you trust, it could be OK. Also I think a 3BF is better, if he plays 3rd chair in a big band or something like that, but they are more expensive.

Very sweeping statement and not well informed, buying from someone on this forum like DJ from whom many of us have bought horns often unseen you will get a good horn for a fair price

[Diana6]

Thanks for all the advice.

Ideally, we wanted to get down to one trombone. My son plays other instruments as well... guitar, piano, keyboards. He wants to be able to play trombone in a college jazz band or big band, not sure about orchestra, but one nice horn is what we're after. I'll probably wait to see what college he will attend and what bands will be available to him. Can you play a 3B in a orchestra at college level?

I think a 3B would be a good fit for him, especially because he likes his 606. If I need to budget more than $1000 to buy one in nice condition, so be it.

DJ - I bought the Olds Special from you about 5 years ago. It's the tri-tone.
His 606 does not have nickel outers and has a Cleveland counterweight.

Does anyone ever buy new 3B's for around $1700-1800? Which decades are more desirable any should any be avoided?

Another question- How does a Bach 16M compare to a King 3B?

[Vegasbound]

16m can be a good horn, but not as versatile as a 3b

[Kingfan]

If he is paring down to just one horn, a 3B-F is about as versatile as a trombone can get. The .525 bore horns like the Bach 36 and King 607F leave a bit at the top end for more bottom end and are also multipurpose. Small mouthpiece for upper parts in jazz, larger for wind ensemble and 3rd bone in a jazz band.

[Diana6]

He likes straight trombones. I think he never liked the hand hold on the Yam 356R.

How is the 3B-F more versatile than the 3B? Sorry, I'm not a player.

[djkennedy]

Hey I remember it’s a good one
Tu tone !!!!!!!
The 3B will do lotsa things most things
The Bach LT16 M is sometimes good sometimes sucks.
Most players wanting an fattachment will
Go to a large bore 547 of some kind
Bach 42b. Conn 88H etc
One horn for everything ask the responders here
How many horns they have ha ha
And college students might be in several
Music group Like marching band
Symphonic band Big band combo etc

[JLivi]

He likes straight trombones. I think he never liked the hand hold on the Yam 356R.

How is the 3B-F more versatile than the 3B? Sorry, I'm not a player.

Only because it has a valve. A lot of times when you get called for a gig, people care more about what your horn looks like than what you actually sound like. So having the valve could fool a lot of folks, especially if he put a larger mouthpiece into it.

[Kingfan]

He likes straight trombones. I think he never liked the hand hold on the Yam 356R.

How is the 3B-F more versatile than the 3B? Sorry, I'm not a player.

I am not a fan of F attachment trombones where the left hand thumb doesn't wrap around the bell brace like on a straight horn. I need brace attachments to make them comfortable for me. However, the 3B-F doesn't have that problem. It should feel right to him.

The 3B-F has an F attachment like the Yamaha. That allows for playing lower parts faster, and gives the player the notes between low E natural below the staff and pedal Bb.

[Kingfan]

I would never buy a 3B for 1000$. For this price, you get very beaten up horns. But if you buy from a friend, or someone you trust, it could be OK. Also I think a 3BF is better, if he plays 3rd chair in a big band or something like that, but they are more expensive.

Me, I don't care about the looks of a horn, I just care how it plays. I bought my 3B-F off eBay several years ago, and adding a trip to the tech for slide alignment and general de-denting I have a great player for under $600 all in. The seller had little feedback, but answered all my questions and send additional photos as requested I took the gamble and it paid off. I just checked eBay SOLD listings and found several nice 3B-Fs that went well under $1000.

[djkennedy]

My first 3B had an fattachment!!!!!!!!!!
Played it in BIG LARRY WILLIAMS BLUES BAND
really there are so many straight trombones
New and old let’s talk soon and
I will clue you in
Sent you an email
Lots of things to consider
Okokokoko
My phone celltext
314-249-9597
Of course this site is really great because
Active players use it for many things
Many options too !!!!!

[Bach5G]

I bought a 3B for $125 back in the $90. Later traded it and cash for a Tennessee Williams.

[Diana6]

I'm not ready at this time DJ. I just wanted some input right now. I'm thinking in a year, year and a half, we will decide what to sell and what to buy.

It seems to me that he would like a 3B straight, and maybe he can keep the 356R just in case.

[JCBone]

I'm not ready at this time DJ. I just wanted some input right now. I'm thinking in a year, year and a half, we will decide what to sell and what to buy.

It seems to me that he would like a 3B straight, and maybe he can keep the 356R just in case.

Sounds like a good choice. A good small bore horn as well as a good large bore horn with a valve should be able to cover mostly anything that would come in front of a decent amature.

[spencercarran]

There's nothing wrong with using a 3b for someone who just wants to play for fun in jazz and concert band settings. If he wanted to major in music the prof would almost certainly require an orchestral-style 0.547 bore with F attachment, but unless he lands at a school with a particularly awful music faculty there shouldn't be any objection to a non-major using whatever instrument works for them.

The only caveat is that if he wants to play in the college marching band, it's nice to have a beater (eg keeping the 606) or, even better, the school might provide marching instruments. I feel so much anxiety seeing people march nice pro trombones.

As others have said, $1k is a good enough budget that you should be able to find a decent 3b, especially if you're able to be patient and wait for the right deal to come along.

[djkennedy]

Thanks Dddddddd and Happy Valentine day m
So the song of the day is
MY FUNNY VALENTINE
check it out JJ JOHNSON. YES !!!!!!
Besides the 3B
A Bach 36 is really great
So has your son grown!!!?!!????
It’s very nice he has stuck with music
And trombone It becomes a part of ones life
A lifelong adventure
A 50s 2B is very very good two
You have time Your son has time
There is another song
Time. Time is on my side
Yes it is..........stones

[EOlson9]

Does anyone ever buy new 3B's for around $1700-1800? Which decades are more desirable any should any be avoided?

I bought a brand new 3B with a gold brass bell 3 years ago. Paid about $2300 for it but I absolutely LOVE that horn.

[JCBone]

Ther really aŕe no new pro horns for under 2000k

[Diana6]

Yeah, I got the price wrong on a new 3B for sure.

DJ... yes, my son has grown, but still lean. He's about 5'9" now. and 125 lbs.

It's been tough through the school closings and band cancellations since last March to keep him interested in playing. They do instrument lessons online, but it is minimal and he's much further advanced than the other trombonists, so he doesn't get much attention. His high school band instructor has been a let down compared to his elementary and middle school teachers, who were great. Lots of kids dropped band, due to this and to being forced into participating in marching band as well. I'm trying to encourage him to keep his playing/practicing up as I think he would really enjoy the college band experience. He loved the jazz band his freshman year. The leader is a pro musician and he is super. Unfortunately, jazz band did not happen this year or last. We will look for colleges with a jazz band, but not sure how many have one. My son started playing the electric guitar about 2 years ago and it has become his favorite instrument now. He seemed to pick it up quite easily.

[dapfoo]

If you settle on a one horn for everything and are on a budget you might try a used getzen eterna 2 - 525. I was on the lookout for a Bach or Benge 525 horn and ran into this instead. I bought one for my son and I absolutely love it. Some of these guys are much more versed in equipment nuance and can weigh in on it. I ended up with a nearly mint instrument for $600.00 and it is incredibly flexible. It is definitely a little darker than a 3B but serviceable for all kinds of settings.

[chuckcox]

I realize that this is an older thread, and probably long-since resolved for this particular respondent, but on the off-chance that someone could still benefit from my experience, I would caution you to always retain a good backup horn, at least for emergencies, or as many have suggested, keep a "beater" horn for use in marching applications. Especially since you already have three (3) horns in your possession. Keep one as your marching horn, sell the other two, and buy something really nice for "indoor" use!
When I became a freshman in HS, my abilities had already surpassed the capabilities of the Reynolds "peashooter" that was my starter horn, and as I was now moving up to the marching band, I got the opportunity to purchase a King 3B w/F-attachment from a recently-graduated player, who had kept his horn in pristine condition. It was the early-70's, and much as it is now, the 'Holy Grail' for trombone players, included the Bach 42B, the Conn 88H, and a few others that were maybe not as well-known. I knew enough about the King 3B to realize it had a trigger and was much better than my peashooter, but I wasn't even fully-aware of what it could do, and didn't realize how big of a jump I was making at the time in quality. Looking back, I probably should have continued to use my peashooter for marching, and used the King for concert/orchestra and jazz/stage band, because the second day I marched with the King, it took a rifle barrel to the outside of the bell (our school had a 'color guard', and they twirled rifles and flags), and the scars are still there fifty years later! The horn still served me well through HS and college, and continues to sound wonderful to this day, but I've always wondered if it wouldn't have sounded just a little better with a fully-resonant bell!

[chuckcox]

As for the capabilities of the King 3B-F from the early 70's, I was able to use it to do virtually everything I needed to do, and never felt I needed another horn for other applications, other than the fact that it really isn't a true "bass" trombone, and does have a little difficulty producing truly low notes (although that is probably as much my fault as the horn's fault). After 10th grade, I was generally always the section leader, both in HS and at college, and I kind of bounced around on parts as needed, though usually playing 1st or 4th in jazz band. I always used a big mouthpiece (Bach 3G), even when playing lead, as I just never liked the thinner sound I got with a smaller mouthpiece. I had started with a 6-1/2AL, which was fine on the smaller horn, but I had never had any use for a 12C! I prefer a fat, boozy-tone, tending toward the brash side, versus a thin, whiny tone.