Vintage conn question

[BigBadandBass]

Hey All, quick question about my 70s 71h. It has elkhart indiana written on the bell, but the serial number hints late 70s, after they moved out of Indiana to Abilene. There's deep pitting near the tenon and handslide where the hand would go so my serials may be wrong, but according to the previous owner, he bought it new mid-late 70s for senior year of HS band and college. I can post pics here later tonight, but anyone have any ideas? Are my serial numbers off or could this be a half elkhart half abilene hybrid from that transition period? If to only add to the confusion, it came with a 70s Bach 1G that has the Remington Shank (I think, it's wobbly in my modern bass) and 3G that doesn't.

[Thrawn22]

From what i understand and have heard, from 69ish to 71is is a transition period and these years weren't exactly Elkhart or Abilene. And if you look at some early Texas 88Hs they have Elkhart engraving on the bells but say "Made in the U.S.A " instead of "Made in Elkhart Ind". And from I've been told, factories focus on one type of manufacturing for a period then move on to another(i.e. making trombone or trombone components for a couple of months tben do trumpets, so on), so some of these early Texas hoens are made with Elkhart parts but assembled elsewhere.

As for buying it new a few years after tbe serial number date, the horn could've been new old stock. I had a students mother but a late 70s 48H in the early 2000s brand new, mint condition, because it was stock that was in a back room.

[Burgerbob]

Bell could be from Elkhart, but assembled later. I don't think the process was super efficient at that particular time.

[CalgaryTbone]

What's the first letter of the serial number? You can check it out on the Conn Loyalist site. One other issue about determining the age of a trombone from that period is that it was pretty common for players to try a few horns at once in the store, and to swap slides and bells to find which was the best combination. In the days of fixed leadpipes and no custom makers like Shires & Edwards, that was the best way to find a horn that fit your playing the best. Your bell and slide might be from different years.

Jim Scott

[BigBadandBass]

Thanks y'all for the info! It looks like in the right light the serial is N4XXXX and the bell says "Elkhart ind. USA", check out the photos!

[greenbean]

Looks like a 1970 horn made at the Elkhart factory. I don't see any conflicting information...

[Posaunus]

Serial Number N... : 1970 Elkhart
Serial Number P... : 1971 Elkhart
Serial Number R...: 1972 Elkhart->Abilene (many parts & some trombones Elkhart, some parts & trombones Abilene)
Serial Number GA... 1973 Abilene (with perhaps a few leftover Elkhart components)

[hornbuilder]

My N series 62H was engraved "made in USA" on the bell. My friend in Australia had an R series 73H that was engraved "Elkhart".

[BigBadandBass]

Looks like a 1970 horn made at the Elkhart factory. I don't see any conflicting information...

Yeah I'll be honest I wasn't 100% sure what I was looking for and only really deeply looked at the instrument after it was mentioned to check the serial

[CalgaryTbone]

My N series 62H was engraved "made in USA" on the bell. My friend in Australia had an R series 73H that was engraved "Elkhart".

Matthew -

It's very possible that there was some inconsistency in the engraving process during the transition years, but I would also call attention to what I said in an earlier post - people often traded around different bells/slides while they were trying out instruments. It's possible that those Conns you're talking about had slides that were newer or older than the bells. If the horns were bought from a major music store that had several of that model, it's quite possible that the slide/bell combos were switched, even multiple times.

My N series 88H says Elkhart, by the way.

Jim Scott

[CalgaryTbone]

I had another thought on this idea of slides being swapped and messing with the consistency of the various bell engravings vs. serial numbers.

My ex-wife is a horn player. She had 2 Conn horns with N serial numbers - both said Elkhart on the bells. I was told once that Conn serial numbers are sequential, but they pass between different instruments. Supposedly, Conn would make a run of certain instruments (based on expected sales) and then would reconfigure their tooling to do a run of a different instrument. They would pick up the serial numbers from where they left off - so the first trumpet of a run where they had just finished making 88H's would have the next sequential serial number. I don't remember where I heard this, and can't verify it, but it makes sense. It would certainly be more efficient for Conn to make a run of the same instrument before moving on to another. Since only the trombones have a serial number on one part (the slide) and the engraving on another (the bell), and they are interchangeable between different horns of the same model, switching parts may account for a lot of the confusion for determining where those classic horns were made.

Jim Scott

[CBlair]

My N4XXXX 73H's bell looks a little like the amateur hour (half hour?) on the engraving bench, but definitely ELKHART IND USA. I figure the employee broke for lunch and didn't come back for whatever reason. Thus, C O I I.
Who knows whether the bell and slide were orphans - does it really matter?
It still works for me 50 years on.

[hornbuilder]

The engraving at the end of the Elkhart years, and beginning of the Abilene years, was really not very good. Some were "okay", but more often than not it looked like it was rushed, with little care taken to make sure it looked good.. IMO