Old C.G. Conn Trombone

[Hannish]

My grandmother’s old flame was a professional trombonist. She gave me his trombone when he passed. I played it throughout my school days, but it’s been sitting in my closet now for years.
I’m looking to re-home it. I’m having trouble identifying what model it is exactly. The serial number seems to be 209. A brass restoration specialist guessed it was made in 1875.
Hoping someone can help me out.

Thank you.

[BGuttman]

Nice instrument.

But it's not as old as you think.

With a slide lock and a bell nut it has to be newer than about 1925.

Looks like the 80H, but I'm sure somebody else can correct me.

I don't know anything about value.

[jacobgarchik]

Wild. Looks to me like a mis-matched slide and bell section. Bell engraving looks like teens or early 20s. But the serial number stamp doesn't look that old and the bracing on the slide is weird and doesn't even look like Conn to me.
Is there a serial on the spit valve or any more numbers on the bell section near the point where it connects with the slide?

[HawaiiTromboneGuy]

Looks like an old Conn I had.

[HawaiiTromboneGuy]

More.

[jacobgarchik]

ok I'm gonna guess original bell section is from the 1910s, then the slide got trashed and someone had a tech put the bell lock nut on to mate it with a newer slide, like maybe in the 60s. Also the case looks like 60s.
The bell section is worth something because F-attachment horns from the 1910s are uncommon. But with a mismatched slide it lowers the value.
The bigger the bell section, the more uncommon it is, and the more it might be worth to modern players who tend to value larger horns. So measure the diameter of the bell.
I don't know what to make of the slide because if it doesn't have any other identifying marks it's impossible to know make and model. Maybe the Conn experts can id by the braces.

[greenbean]

My take: The slide was rebuilt at some point with a newer (60s?) lower cork barrel. The upper barrel does not appear to be an early slide made before modern telescoping slides were developed. 1920s, perhaps.

[BGuttman]

Now I'm even more convinced this is an 80H. Engraving looks like my 1927 40H.

Here's a picture of the 80H from the Conn Loyalist:

[Kbiggs]

I don’t know what it DOES look like, but it doesn’t look like at 80H or a 40H.

It has a “double reversed” tuning slide, which is unusual for Conn. It’s hard to tell from the first picture, but the valve dust cap looks flat, rather than with obverse button shape, kind of like some old German instruments.

[BGuttman]

I never said it looked like a 40H. Just that the engraving looked something like mine, a sort of dating technique.

I think we may need more detailed pictures to settle your observations. Maybe a set like HawaiiTromboneGuy posted could help.

[LeTromboniste]

Well, C.G.Conn started in 1876, so we can rule out 1875!

In all seriousness, a 19th century instrument wouldn't have a lock nut, but then again the lower cork barrel is most definitely not original (you can see the difference between the turnings on the slide lock, which match the early 20th century Conn style, and the turnings or lack thereof on the lower cork barrel which clearly don't). The slide receiver on the bell side also looks very much like it was changed. Slides don't have chrome plated tubes either until several decades later, could be a later slide, or a slide rebuild. Also odd to have a silver (or nickel silver) crook on a brass slide at that point. You can see that the 209 is also engraved on the tenon (possibly by the tech who installed the newer cork barrel?). To me everything points to a later and/or heavily modified slide. The bracing on the inner slide is not very typical for these old Conns. Since the serial (is it even a serial?) is only on the slide, which seems to be a bit of a mess, that makes identification and dating really difficult. If anything, the slide might very well not be from a Conn. Frankly considering everything about that slide, what strikes me as odd is that it does have a top cork barrel that looks old Conn-ish, rather than being an obviously old slide with one or two odd newer parts.

Looking at the proportions of the bell section, I suspect this might have been a "high pitch" instrument, which often came with an alternate, longer tuning slide to make it possible to also play in the "low pitch". I could be wrong but the proportions of the tuning slide scream to me "low pitch slide"

The only very early (I.e. 1870s or 80s) Conn I've seen was very different than what we see soon after. Somewhat closer to German style, much wider flare. This bell looks later and more in the vein of what we're used to see on slightly later instruments.

Based on all that my best guess would be the bell could be early 20th century (until 1920 ish at the most I would say), but it's unfortunately impossible to date it accurately. *Some* parts of the slide *might* be original but most likely it's overall much more recent.

[jacobgarchik]

Hawaiitromboneguy, what was the bore on that Symphony? Small or large shank?

[HawaiiTromboneGuy]

Hawaiitromboneguy, what was the bore on that Symphony? Small or large shank?

Large shank .547”

[jacobgarchik]

so both the .522 small shank 80h and your .547 large shank symphony horn had this wrap. Confounds the ID.
Bell size might be a clue. But I have a feeling they made both 8" and 8 1/2" versions of the .522 horns too.

[Doug Elliott]

As Le Tromboniste's post points out, it appears to be a Frankenhorn built from at least 2 and maybe 3 different eras of Conn parts. The slide section is probably a mix, with the bell tenon matching the lower slide. Most of the bell section is earlier, and the bell flare may be even earlier than that. The long low pitch tuning slide may be to compensate for something else, maybe the slide, being shorter than the original.

Maybe more info about the previous owner would shed some light on its origins.