Ready for an Intermediate Instrument at 67?

[BGuttman]

A decent instrument is never a waste of money (except if you are going to give it to a kid who will trash it). If you can find a "pro" level used instrument that's even better.

One horn that's gotten a lot of good press here is the Yamaha 356, which is a dual bore (0.500"/0.525") with F attachment.

I like the King 3B-F. But if you can't find one in your price range, the 607 or 608 (yellow vs. gold brass) is a Medium Bore that would work well.

I picked up a Reynolds Medalist with F that I've really been enjoying.

Lots of good horns. Find one you like.

[Doug Elliott]

A lot of people would second the vote for the Yamaha 356. I don't have one myself but sometimes I wish I did. You should be able to find a used one for a very reasonable price.

[Conn100HGuy]

One of the benefits of playing the trombone is that you can get excellent pro-level instruments for less than $1,000, sometimes WAY less. There's no need to buy a student or "step-up" model.

[harrisonreed]

If I could only have one horn for the rest of my life... I'd get a used King 3BF and two different small shank mouthpieces (one deep and one shallow) with the same or similar rim as what I'm used to. The shallow mouthpiece is for playing first or playing anything that isn't band music, and the deeper cup is for everything else. For me it'd be a Doug Elliott C+/D3 mouthpiece and a E/E3.

You'll be able to play 100% of the music, even third parts, in an amateur setting for any kind of music, and will have a ton of fun doing it. You could probably have all that for about $1000.

The more I use my King, the more I realize just how much of a genius whoever designed the 3B was. Whoever decided to put the valve on it was also a genius. It's an unbelievable horn, and it seems like people are just giving them away.

[Chalker4]

Thanks for the input so far, folks, much appreciated!

I am curious as to why Yamaha does not market the 356 in the USA. Distributors abroad I checked won't sell or ship them to the USA, either. Just wondering why....

[Matt K]

Yamaha distributes regionally based on what from what I understand is the regional person in charge of sales. So it isn't "Yamaha" per se that is making the decision, although it is someone at Yamaha, of course.

If you want to send me a message, I've been about to list mine or a combination of it and some other Yamaha stuff. I can get you a good price on mine.

[elmsandr]

Thanks for the input so far, folks, much appreciated!

I am curious as to why Yamaha does not market the 356 in the USA. Distributors abroad I checked won't sell or ship them to the USA, either. Just wondering why....

They did, it was replaced by some 4xx horn that is a little different. Do they still offer the original (356R if I recall) in other markets?

Still regret selling the 1990 or 1991 version that I sold a long time ago.

Cheers,
Andy

[Matt K]

IIRC The 356R is sold in Europe with a nickel slide still, or was as of a few years ago. But they won't sell the nickel tubes separately in the US, unfortunately, or else I'd have nickel outers on mine!

[Chalker4]

I see the 356GE on Thomann's (Europe) and 356G on Cosmo Music's (Canada) websites. Nickel slides, yes. It just seems odd to me that Yamaha won't sell them or allow distributors to ship them into the US. Almost seems like a legal thing more than a marketing choice.

[elmsandr]

IIRC The 356R is sold in Europe with a nickel slide still, or was as of a few years ago. But they won't sell the nickel tubes separately in the US, unfortunately, or else I'd have nickel outers on mine!

Ick... I do not like nickel tubes on any horn. I think that would drastically change my opinion on the horn as a whole. I liked a slightly hefty brass horn with a nice red (or gold) bell with the mid dual bore. Looking up the specs of the current 4XX horns, seems like they made it a basic .525 type horn. Probably nice, but not the same thing.

I can see why the 356R got pushed out, it really is an odd horn by the specs... but the whole was greater than the sum of its' parts which I thought was pretty handy for a lot of people, students and amateurs especially. Great horn that does everything pretty well and extremely manageable.

Cheers,
Andy

[timothy42b]

Why would age matter?

I'm not being snarky, that's an honest question.

In my amateur world, the older players tend to be more refined than powerful. That may be a stereotype, I dunno, it's what I've seen.

If that's the case, perhaps it argues for a smaller bore horn that takes less air to get the tone you want. That can still be a pro level horn

The other possibility is how many years you've got left to get the value from an expensive horn. That's something i think about because I have no musician kids or grandkids to pass my collection on to, but it's easily solved by leaving them to a deserving cause.

[Matt K]

I like a mix of it. Yamaha has good weight slides. I'd possibly be a little happier on a Yellow brass outer/nickel crook or a yellow crook with the nickel outers.

[imsevimse]

I have a 356R and it is a good horn. I second that a King 3b/f also is a good choice if you want a smaller horn with trigger.

If you have the money and the "need" there is a Yamaha 892ZX that can be made on request. It is the Håkan Björkman variant of a 891Z that has an open wrap trigger valve. They had five of them in a shop in Stockholm about four years ago and I think the owner especially asked for them to be made. Three were pre ordered and I bought the last of that series of five that arrived. Håkan Björkman is the principle of the Swedish Radio Orchestra and also teaches at the Royal Accademy of Music in Stockholm. The 892ZX I have has no model number stamped anywhere, but it was advertised as a 892ZX. It is a .508 as the King 3b/f but more "polite" (less brassy).

I wonder why Yamaha do not manufacture them as a part of their official line of trombones?

/Tom

[harrisonreed]

OP got deleted looks like

[Chalker4]

OP got deleted looks like

Hmm, wonder how that happened? Could I have done that, inadvertently asks the noob?

[Matt K]

That may have been my fault. Although probably not given that you can still post here. Can you see a sub forum called the "No Fly Zone" by any chance?

[Chalker4]

Why would age matter?

I'm not being snarky, that's an honest question.

In my amateur world, the older players tend to be more refined than powerful. That may be a stereotype, I dunno, it's what I've seen.

If that's the case, perhaps it argues for a smaller bore horn that takes less air to get the tone you want. That can still be a pro level horn

The other possibility is how many years you've got left to get the value from an expensive horn. That's something i think about because I have no musician kids or grandkids to pass my collection on to, but it's easily solved by leaving them to a deserving cause.

Not taken as snarky at all, sir!

It's always a cost:value proposition. Am I good enough now or will i ever be good enough to fully reap the benefits of a better instrument? Will I receive the satisfaction from this purchase to justify the outlay? Valid questions.

A colleague planned to retire at 55. His passion is sailing and he wanted to have a final craft built for him but was struggling with the expense. The builder said "You are 55, so with any luck you'll have another 20 good summers with it." James bought the boat.

[Chalker4]

That may have been my fault. Although probably not given that you can still post here. Can you see a sub forum called the "No Fly Zone" by any chance?

Matt - No sir, don't see it but maybe I don't know where to look.

[Matt K]

That may have been my fault. Although probably not given that you can still post here. Can you see a sub forum called the "No Fly Zone" by any chance?

Matt - No sir, don't see it but maybe I don't know where to look.

It would be on the front page. I have a script that handles the spam we were getting. When it adds someone to the list though, it sends them to a parallel side of the forum that nobody else can see that has a few subforum so it makes the bots think that they're interacting with other humans, but it's entirely bot or bot-like traffic. A human would recognize immediately that the entirety of the contents are nonsensical spam, but the bots continue to post there, sometimes indefinitely.

[pjanda1]

Buy the trombone you want. They aren't very expensive. Plenty of folks spend $40k on modifications to Jeeps and then only drive them to the mall. There are a lot of 250+lb guys enjoying $15k road bicycles that make them not even the tiniest bit faster than they'd be on a cheap bike. I bet many a home cook enjoys a fancier knife than appears in the roll of many a "pro."

A nice trombone will play better. And not only that, but they are generally nicer to own. I played in community bands as a kid with quite a few folks--including folks of very modest means--who had NICE horns but were not terribly good players. Even if you don't sound like a "pro" a "pro" horn feels good and looks good in your hands.

Finally, as others have mentioned, one of the great things about trombones is that they are CHEAP. If medium bore works for you, the world has a lot of cheap Bach 36s. King 3Bs bring an unwarranted premium, IMO, especially with F attachments (and I say that as a guy with one for sale). Crazy good 78Hs can be had all day long for less than a grand. And the careful shopper can find all sorts of things on fb marketplace and CL for nearly nothing. Conns and Bachs if you look hard. Cool Holtons and Benges for the more adventurous. Old "student" or "intermediate" Yamahas that are GREAT horns can be had routinely for a couple hundred bucks or less.

My only advice for used horns is to talk to a tech and get familiar with how to spot slide and wear issues. Bad slides are no fun, and they can be budget busters to get made right. Bells that have been worked over can lose their magic.

I don't see your original post so I don't know about budget constraints. If you can afford a Edwards/Shires/M&W/Lawler just do it and be proud. Even if it makes it to fewer than 10 gigs. Or, buy a half dozen cool old trombones if that is your thing. Life is too short to "settle" on some things.

Paul

[Pezza]

The Yamaha YSL456A is a great medium bore with F attachment made for the Australian market! Easy to blow, just a little bright for me ( I like the darker sounding Bach's)!
Easy to pick up 2nd hand in Aus, they pop up on ebay and gumtree.