Looking for a budget friendly bass trombone

[irtjames14]

Hello,

A new member in this forum here.. I've been thinking of playing the trombone after many years of not having played.. And I'm starting to really fall for bass trombones hence I was thinking of getting one. But seeing how bass trombones are so expensive, I was hoping to get some suggestions for a cheaper bass trombone (which are still around the $2,000 range...) with double triggers (independent). I've came across two in particular:

- JP232
- Allora ATBB-450

Do people have any experience playing these? If so, can you please provide your thoughts? And also, are there other options I should consider for a cheaper bass trombone? Even including used ones? (Excluding the Mack Brass/Jinbao ones, I heard those don't hold up for that long..)

Thank you for your time!

[BGuttman]

Look in our Classifieds. Often older models will come up at attractive prices. And they will generally be better than the two you listed.

You can also post a message in our Classifieds as a WTB and see who replies (it's free).

Also, welcome back to the Trombone.

[tbonesullivan]

You are definitely going to want to look used. Were you looking independent or dependent? What tuning?

Older independents in Bb/F/G/Eb show up from time to time, as do dependents in Bb/F/Eb and Bb/F/E.

[irtjames14]

Look in our Classifieds. Often older models will come up at attractive prices. And they will generally be better than the two you listed.

You can also post a message in our Classifieds as a WTB and see who replies (it's free).

Also, welcome back to the Trombone.

Thank you so much for the welcome! I am looking to spend about $2,000-2,500 tops for a bass trombone, do you think older models that are listed come in at around this price range? And also what are the general conditions of the used trombone at this price point?

I'll be looking to buy in the next few months most likely, so I will definitely make a post there when the time comes. Thank you so much!

[irtjames14]

You are definitely going to want to look used. Were you looking independent or dependent? What tuning?

Older independents in Bb/F/G/Eb show up from time to time, as do dependents in Bb/F/Eb and Bb/F/E.

I am looking ideally for independent triggers, the Bb/F/G/Eb (which I believe is standard?). Would I be able to find decent bass trombones with independent triggers at around the $2,000-$2,500 range?

Thank you!

[BGuttman]

An older King (6B, 7B, 8B), Benge 290, Getzen 1052, Blessing B98, Holton 180, or Yamaha 612/613 would probably meet your price point and play better than the ones you listed.

Consider the suggestion that you figure out what kind of double valve you are looking for. Of course the first question is "have you ever played a single valve"? If not, the double is going to be twice as hard to learn. I usually suggest starting with a single valve instrument, getting used to the F side positions, and then adding the 2nd valve.

Dependent valve instruments can be in Bb/flat E (the original version - which allows you to hit low B at the end of the slide, sort of like an instant E-pull), Bb/Eb, and Bb/D. Customizations can include a 2nd valve that gives low C in 1st position. You can get used to any of these, but I don't suggest constantly switching off between them. Bb/flat E doubles are relatively inexpensive and can easily be adapted to Bb/Eb or Bb/D so you could start off with a Bb/flat E and later modify it.

Independent valve instruments are usually in Bb/G/Eb or Bb/Gb/D. The Yamaha 613 comes with two slides so you can configure the 2nd valve either way. Bb/Gb/D is the more popular but there are advocates for the Bb/G/Eb.

Whatever you choose, good luck.

[irtjames14]

An older King (6B, 7B, 8B), Benge 290, Getzen 1052, Blessing B98, Holton 180, or Yamaha 612/613 would probably meet your price point and play better than the ones you listed.

Consider the suggestion that you figure out what kind of double valve you are looking for. Of course the first question is "have you ever played a single valve"? If not, the double is going to be twice as hard to learn. I usually suggest starting with a single valve instrument, getting used to the F side positions, and then adding the 2nd valve.

Dependent valve instruments can be in Bb/flat E (the original version - which allows you to hit low B at the end of the slide, sort of like an instant E-pull), Bb/Eb, and Bb/D. Customizations can include a 2nd valve that gives low C in 1st position. You can get used to any of these, but I don't suggest constantly switching off between them. Bb/flat E doubles are relatively inexpensive and can easily be adapted to Bb/Eb or Bb/D so you could start off with a Bb/flat E and later modify it.

Independent valve instruments are usually in Bb/G/Eb or Bb/Gb/D. The Yamaha 613 comes with two slides so you can configure the 2nd valve either way. Bb/Gb/D is the more popular but there are advocates for the Bb/G/Eb.

Whatever you choose, good luck.

I appreciate your suggestion! While you are probably right that I should start off by playing with only one valve, the ambitious side of me just wants to go get double valves and just learn the hard way. Also, another factor is that I probably won't get another trombone in the future, so the one I get, I want to make it count for the buck and get one with full capabilities, so that I can have it for my lifetime. And I'd want to get independent double valves.

With regards to some older models you listed above, are those used trombones hard to come by? I can't find any of those used online right now (well I see a refurbished King 7b on ebay, but way over my budget...).

[Posaunus]

Yes, you CAN find decent used bass trombones for $2,000-$2,500. Keep looking (especially on this forum).
Other TromboneChat members can give you suggestions for brands / models to be aware of.

[Kingfan]

I paid about $1,600 all in for my King 7B independent bass about two years ago. Be patient, the right horn will come along. I would say go ahead and get a double valve bass if you want - you can play it as a single valve bass until you are ready for the second valve.

[irtjames14]

Yes, you CAN find decent used bass trombones for $2,000-$2,500. Keep looking (especially on this forum).
Other TromboneChat members can give you suggestions for brands / models to be aware of.

Sure, thanks! Will keep an eye out for sure. Just a thought here... if I do go up on the budget a little bit, would the JP 333 Rath be a good trombone to get? Or would used trombones at this price range be better?

[irtjames14]

I paid about $1,600 all in for my King 7B independent bass about two years ago. Be patient, the right horn will come along. I would say go ahead and get a double valve bass if you want - you can play it as a single valve bass until you are ready for the second valve.

Wow that's awesome! Just a thought here (same one I asked Posaunus just above)... if I do go up on the budget a little bit, would the JP 333 Rath be a good trombone to get? Or would used trombones at this price range be better?

[Posaunus]

Yes, you CAN find decent used bass trombones for $2,000-$2,500. Keep looking (especially on this forum).
Other TromboneChat members can give you suggestions for brands / models to be aware of.

This could be a pretty darn good "starter" bass trombone.
https://trombonechat.com/viewtopic.php?f=22&t=26305

Yamaha trombones are well-made and relatively "robust." But this one has only one valve.
Why not buy it for $800 and play it until you are used to the size and heft of a bass trombone?
If you like it after a year, sell it for what you paid and get another used bass with two valves.

[irtjames14]

Yes, you CAN find decent used bass trombones for $2,000-$2,500. Keep looking (especially on this forum).
Other TromboneChat members can give you suggestions for brands / models to be aware of.

This could be a pretty darn good "starter" bass trombone.
https://trombonechat.com/viewtopic.php?f=22&t=26305

Yamaha trombones are well-made and relatively "robust." But this one has only one valve.
Why not buy it for $800 and play it until you are used to the size and heft of a bass trombone?
If you like it after a year, sell it for what you paid and get another used bass with two valves.

Thanks for the suggestion, but I'm really looking for a double valve bass trombone.. I'm just the type to find one and stick with it really...

[MrHCinDE]

It‘s definitely possible to find one of the models mentioned by Bruce in a decent used condition within your budget.

I went down the route of a cheap (Wessex) independent horn for a bit, it wasn‘t bad for the money and had decent enough slide and valves but ultimately I am much happier with the used dependent Yamaha 612Rii I replaced it with, especially sound-wise, which incidentally was well within your budget, even when bought from a music shop with returns policy and warranty etc.

I‘d politely suggest that if your budget is not going to cover axial, Hagmann or other nice open valves, a dependent setup may even play a bit more open, which some people prefer, as with the independent setup all the air has to go through both valves all the time. Other people get on with a higher resistance so independent standard rotors don’t bother them. There are of course many aspects to how open a horn plays other than just the valves and ideally you could try a couple of budget dependent and independent horns, likely with standard rotors, back-to-back and make your own mind up, you may be surprised.

I‘m not playing a lot of modern big band charts or college-level bass trombone solos, if that‘s your intention, there are some technical passages which are just flat out easier to play on dependent setups. A lot of bass trombone repertoire is playable with single valve, all is playable on a dependent setup and a small percentage of advanced stuff is easier on independent.

Best to keep an open mind really, a great-playing dependent horn could be all you ever need and may need a bit less patience to find one with less compromise on, say, slide condition in your budget.

[LeTromboniste]

I have a used bass for sale in your price range, check your PMs.

[GabrielRice]

Look used. I recently saw a Yamaha 613H advertised for $2000. Other flavors of Yamaha 613 are also excellent and easy to play. You see Holton TR-181s in that range too. Getzen 1052.

[irtjames14]

It‘s definitely possible to find one of the models mentioned by Bruce in a decent used condition within your budget.

I went down the route of a cheap (Wessex) independent horn for a bit, it wasn‘t bad for the money and had decent enough slide and valves but ultimately I am much happier with the used dependent Yamaha 612Rii I replaced it with, especially sound-wise, which incidentally was well within your budget, even when bought from a music shop with returns policy and warranty etc.

I‘d politely suggest that if your budget is not going to cover axial, Hagmann or other nice open valves, a dependent setup may even play a bit more open, which some people prefer, as with the independent setup all the air has to go through both valves all the time. Other people get on with a higher resistance so independent standard rotors don’t bother them. There are of course many aspects to how open a horn plays other than just the valves and ideally you could try a couple of budget dependent and independent horns, likely with standard rotors, back-to-back and make your own mind up, you may be surprised.

I‘m not playing a lot of modern big band charts or college-level bass trombone solos, if that‘s your intention, there are some technical passages which are just flat out easier to play on dependent setups. A lot of bass trombone repertoire is playable with single valve, all is playable on a dependent setup and a small percentage of advanced stuff is easier on independent.

Best to keep an open mind really, a great-playing dependent horn could be all you ever need and may need a bit less patience to find one with less compromise on, say, slide condition in your budget.

Thanks for your insights and thoughts here. But I really do prefer going for an independent double values for my trombone.. I am the type that wants to experiment as much as possible with the things I get, so I think an independent double value does suit me the best for that purpose, as it seems to open up possibilities..

I did come across a few other used trombones, a bit higher price range than I've been planning:
Jupiter JTB1180
JP 333 Rath

Do you have any insights on these two by any chance?

[irtjames14]

Look used. I recently saw a Yamaha 613H advertised for $2000. Other flavors of Yamaha 613 are also excellent and easy to play. You see Holton TR-181s in that range too. Getzen 1052.

Interesting.. I will definitely keep an eye out.

I did come across a few other used trombones (newer brands?), a bit higher price range than I've been planning:
Jupiter JTB1180
JP 333 Rath

Do you have any insights on these two by any chance? And do you think these are worth it for around $2500-2800, as this is what I am seeing?

[BGuttman]

If I was looking for a "permanent" instrument I'd probably skip those (and even the Wessex). If you want something inexpensive to start on planning to upgrade at some time in the future some of the brands you mentioned are OK, but they are at best "step-up" horns. It's going to be tough to find champagne on a beer budget. You will get more for your money on a used top line horn than a new step up.

[Posaunus]

You will get more for your money on a used top line horn than a new [or used] step up.

[irtjames14]

If I was looking for a "permanent" instrument I'd probably skip those (and even the Wessex). If you want something inexpensive to start on planning to upgrade at some time in the future some of the brands you mentioned are OK, but they are at best "step-up" horns. It's going to be tough to find champagne on a beer budget. You will get more for your money on a used top line horn than a new step up.

Right, that makes sense... I have some thinking to do before I go ahead pursue one. Thanks for your thoughts!

[heldenbone]

When I was looking for a good bass trombone, in roughly your price bracket, Tom Rice was able to help me out. I'm now the happy player of a nearly pristeen Getzen 1062 FDR (red brass bell, stacked rotors). "green bean" on TromboneChat. Don't discount offers from forum members of second-hand instruments, in-line *or* stacked. I think you would find the trigger range just above the pedals easier going on stacked rotors.

[MrBadger]

I’ve heard very good reports of the Rath (non-modular) 900 double independent bass trombone - not *too* much more expensive than JP.

[irtjames14]

When I was looking for a good bass trombone, in roughly your price bracket, Tom Rice was able to help me out. I'm now the happy player of a nearly pristeen Getzen 1062 FDR (red brass bell, stacked rotors). "green bean" on TromboneChat. Don't discount offers from forum members of second-hand instruments, in-line *or* stacked. I think you would find the trigger range just above the pedals easier going on stacked rotors.

Thanks, will continue to be on the lookout for a good one to come up!

[irtjames14]

I’ve heard very good reports of the Rath (non-modular) 900 double independent bass trombone - not *too* much more expensive than JP.

Thanks for your insights on this one! I'll also look into this one!

[MrHCinDE]

Thanks for your insights and thoughts here. But I really do prefer going for an independent double values for my trombone.. I am the type that wants to experiment as much as possible with the things I get, so I think an independent double value does suit me the best for that purpose, as it seems to open up possibilities..

I did come across a few other used trombones, a bit higher price range than I've been planning:
Jupiter JTB1180
JP 333 Rath

Do you have any insights on these two by any chance?

You can experiment with much more than where to use a Gb valve on it’s own to make some particular passage easier, that‘s basically the main technical advantage of an independent setup. There’s the small matter of technique and musical experimentation, before even mentioning mouthpieces, leadpipes and materials. Fair enough though, you‘ve clearly given it some thought and are keen on an independent setup which should also be possible in your price range.

I haven‘t tried either of those models personally. I tried the XO 1240 which is kinda the next model up in the Jupiter line. Probably beyond your budget as a new horn but if you found a used one would be worth a look. It was a really fine Instrument with a big fat sound.

Generally speaking I think the used market probably offers better value in your budget. Yamaha, King, Benge, Holton, Getzen etc. should all be possible with some patience.

[irtjames14]

Thanks for your insights and thoughts here. But I really do prefer going for an independent double values for my trombone.. I am the type that wants to experiment as much as possible with the things I get, so I think an independent double value does suit me the best for that purpose, as it seems to open up possibilities..

I did come across a few other used trombones, a bit higher price range than I've been planning:
Jupiter JTB1180
JP 333 Rath

Do you have any insights on these two by any chance?

You can experiment with much more than where to use a Gb valve on it’s own to make some particular passage easier, that‘s basically the main technical advantage of an independent setup. There’s the small matter of technique and musical experimentation, before even mentioning mouthpieces, leadpipes and materials. Fair enough though, you‘ve clearly given it some thought and are keen on an independent setup which should also be possible in your price range.

I haven‘t tried either of those models personally. I tried the XO 1240 which is kinda the next model up in the Jupiter line. Probably beyond your budget as a new horn but if you found a used one would be worth a look. It was a really fine Instrument with a big fat sound.

Generally speaking I think the used market probably offers better value in your budget. Yamaha, King, Benge, Holton, Getzen etc. should all be possible with some patience.

Appreciate it, thanks for your response!

One general question I do have (for everyone here), what would make a 30-50 year old trombone still hold up its sound after all these years and still be better the new trombones at the lower price point (from maybe a lesser known brand)?

[harrisonreed]

Appreciate it, thanks for your response!

One general question I do have (for everyone here), what would make a 30-50 year old trombone still hold up its sound after all these years and still be better the new trombones at the lower price point (from maybe a lesser known brand)?

The design. The materials. Who built it. The care with which they built and aligned everything.

[tbonesullivan]

Appreciate it, thanks for your response!

One general question I do have (for everyone here), what would make a 30-50 year old trombone still hold up its sound after all these years and still be better the new trombones at the lower price point (from maybe a lesser known brand)?

The design. The materials. Who built it. The care with which they built and aligned everything.

All of this. I've been served VERY well by the Yamaha YBL-612 RII I picked up on ebay for quite a bit less than the earlier versions go for. AND... if you want to upgrade later, it's much easier to sell and get the same type of money back than with "lesser known" brands.

[Bach5G]

I have a couple of bass trombones: a Yam 620G that I found used at the LMS and a Benge 290 that belonged to a friend. Both horns required some TLC. I think about selling one or the other but I can’t decide which and I like them both. Both are decent horns that would be within the OP’s budget.

[irtjames14]

I have a couple of bass trombones: a Yam 620G that I found used at the LMS and a Benge 290 that belonged to a friend. Both horns required some TLC. I think about selling one or the other but I can’t decide which and I like them both. Both are decent horns that would be within the OP’s budget.

How much would you sell either of them for? And would you be able to share some pictures? I'd like to see how their conditions are.. And I can't seem to find any videos online on how the Benge 290 sounds, and I've heard multiple people recommend this model too.. would you happen to know of any videos showcasing the Benge 290? I was able to find some videos for the Yamaha 620G, so I was able to hear how that one sounds.

Edit: I just came across online that the Yamaha 620G have dependent double valves? If so then I'll probably pass on this, as I am looking for independent double valves only... Does the Benge 290 also have dependent valves?

[irtjames14]

Appreciate it, thanks for your response!

One general question I do have (for everyone here), what would make a 30-50 year old trombone still hold up its sound after all these years and still be better the new trombones at the lower price point (from maybe a lesser known brand)?

The design. The materials. Who built it. The care with which they built and aligned everything.

Makes sense, just like basically with any other instruments.. I was thinking brass would deteriorate faster, but guess not!

[irtjames14]

The design. The materials. Who built it. The care with which they built and aligned everything.

All of this. I've been served VERY well by the Yamaha YBL-612 RII I picked up on ebay for quite a bit less than the earlier versions go for. AND... if you want to upgrade later, it's much easier to sell and get the same type of money back than with "lesser known" brands.

It looks like many people are suggesting to stay away from lesser known brands, like the JP, Rath, Jupiter, and such.. Is it generally just a perception that people don't like these lesser known brands compared to the more established ones? Or is there really a considerable difference in quality and sound from these compared to the established brands?

[BGuttman]

There are subtle differences even between two examples of the same model, but generally the uniformity and quality of manufacture of the lower grades is less than the top grades. Again, there is no champagne on a beer budget. If you really like playing the lottery, you might actually come out with a top grade instrument from one of the lesser makers -- but the odds are not in your favor.

The Benge 290 was brought out in the 1980s to be a more "legit" King trombone. It didn't catch on with the pros and became orphaned. They go for low prices but play way above their cost. Big issue with this and any other used instrument is its history. A well maintained horn is worthwhile. But one that was "rode hard and put away wet" can be a big headache.

[irtjames14]

There are subtle differences even between two examples of the same model, but generally the uniformity and quality of manufacture of the lower grades is less than the top grades. Again, there is no champagne on a beer budget. If you really like playing the lottery, you might actually come out with a top grade instrument from one of the lesser makers -- but the odds are not in your favor.

The Benge 290 was brought out in the 1980s to be a more "legit" King trombone. It didn't catch on with the pros and became orphaned. They go for low prices but play way above their cost. Big issue with this and any other used instrument is its history. A well maintained horn is worthwhile. But one that was "rode hard and put away wet" can be a big headache.

Yes, that's the biggest concern I have with potentially buying a used instrument.. Not sure of the history and the pictures and descriptions provided may be potentially misleading. So I'm trying to weigh all my options here (both used trombone for better buck for the quality or a brand new trombone with a lesser known brand, but knowing it'll be new). Thanks for jumping in!

[MrHCinDE]

With trombones, some of the 50+ year old instruments are very much treasured, have a look round the forum for Mt Vernon Bach trombones, Elkhart Conn trombones, H.N.White King trombones and Vintage Holton trombones and you‘ll find quite a few fans!

It‘s not only about a comparison with lesser known brands, there are many examples of models by Bach/Conn/King which have been in production for decades. There have been design changes, changes of company owners, relocation of production, strikes etc. over the years. You will find plenty of trombonists who will actively search out say an Elkhart Conn 88H or H.N.White King 3B over the new interpretations of the same models.

With the extra mechanics of bass trombones, there‘s something to be said for more modern designs which have improved ergonomics and playability for a lot of people so I‘m not sure Vintage would be the right direction for you, unless someone has already done the work of replacing/upgrading the valves and/or trigger mechanism and you are looking for a specific sound (which may be magnificent btw).

If you do decide to buy (modern-ish) used, it‘s good to inform yourself of the main points to check. There are some specific mechanical and material deterioration issues to check for so have a look round here for advice, or even better ask a tech. or experienced trombonist to check out before you buy.

[ithinknot]

If you do decide to buy (modern-ish) used, it‘s good to inform yourself of the main points to check. There are some specific mechanical and material deterioration issues to check for so have a look round here for advice, or even better ask a tech. or experienced trombonist to check out before you buy.

Yes, and be honest with yourself - if you're not knowledgeable about these things, you'll need external help, and the risks may not be worth it. Also, being able to spot problems with a view to bargain hunting is only really useful if you know roughly how much repairing those problems might cost, and if you're in an area with decent techs.

Not sure of the history and the pictures and descriptions provided may be potentially misleading. So I'm trying to weigh all my options here (both used trombone for better buck for the quality or a brand new trombone with a lesser known brand, but knowing it'll be new).

With a new instrument of lesser quality, a huge chunk of the price is burned immediately.

If you know instruments, you really know the market, and you have both the cash up front and some degree of self-control, used trombones are essentially free. Depreciation is no longer an issue, so if you don't damage it, it's yours indefinitely for the price of routine maintenance.

If you don't know the market that well - and you don't - just buy a used instrument made by a reputable manufacturer from a reputable dealer (Dillon, Brass Exchange, Brass Ark, Hornguys etc.) A used Yamaha (King, Benge, Holton, etc) from one of these dealers is worth what it's worth, and they'd sell it for the same price in six months (notwithstanding inflation...), or you'd get the same price minus their 20%ish markup/commission if you sold it on eBay/Facebook/here.

[DougHulme]

Just a comment on Jupiter Trombones. A quick glance through these comments seems to suggest lots put the Jupiter in the cheaper or less quality bracket. I dont actually own a jupiter trombone but every one I have played in the last 10 years has impressed me with its build quality and its tonal qualities, they should be considered alongside any of the other makes being held up here as standards like the Yamaha (which I do own). Maybe in earlier times than 10 years ago they were not quite so good (?) but for the recent past they are excellent and should be considered. Fedchok wouldnt put his name to the tenor if it wasnt a great horn for instance.

[PhilTrombone]

You might want to monitor some of the (reputable) brass instrument stores. Some of them frequently have used horns for sale - and these have usually been maintained by the store. If you are close enough to make the trip, you can audition the horn at the store.

Here's a couple :
https://www.baltimorebrasscompany.com/
https://www.dillonmusic.com/

Both of the above currently have a few bass trombones in stock.

[soseggnchips]

I've not played a modern Jupiter, but I know a pro who has the .500 XO tenor and he sounds fantastic on it.

I've also seen a lot of older Jupiter student models. Some were fine, some were terrible. One was probably the worst assembled trombone I've ever seen. Somehow they'd managed to create a blob of solder about half an inch across between the inner slide brace and one of the tubes. Needless to say, the slide was basically unmovable.

Personally, I'd go for a used pro horn, but... take an experienced player along to try anything you're thinking of buying. Something like a Yamaha will have been very well built when it left the factory, but who knows what's happened since then? It's like buying an old Lexus - the inherent quality is very high, but good cars can easily be ruined by bad owners. If that's not an option, the safest bet is to buy from a shop or a forum member with a good reputation.

I know this isn't what the OP wants to hear, but I'd actually suggest going out and buying a good used student model tenor for $100 or whatever the going rate is and practising on that for 6 months. That way, you can start building up your skills straight away, and you've taken the pressure off to jump on the first bass trombone you see. You'll have the luxury of time to wait for a great deal to come along, and you'll be better equipped to evaluate the instrument when it does. Plus, you'll have a usable tenor trombone in your closet - most bass trombonists also get asked to play tenor on occasion so you'll probably end up buying one eventually anyway.

[harrisonreed]

All of this. I've been served VERY well by the Yamaha YBL-612 RII I picked up on ebay for quite a bit less than the earlier versions go for. AND... if you want to upgrade later, it's much easier to sell and get the same type of money back than with "lesser known" brands.

It looks like many people are suggesting to stay away from lesser known brands, like the JP, Rath, Jupiter, and such.. Is it generally just a perception that people don't like these lesser known brands compared to the more established ones? Or is there really a considerable difference in quality and sound from these compared to the established brands?

For what you want to spend, used will likely get you a much better horn than new. Yes, you'll need to know what you're doing and who to buy from. The horns you're thinking of skimping on aren't where it's at.

[irtjames14]

Thank you everyone for your thoughts here! I will definitely be thinking on my choices before picking one up. I don't have the luxury of taking an experienced player with me to check out used (and new) trombones since I don't know any.. But doing some research first online (and when I go into a store) before pulling the trigger on one..

[Bach5G]

FWIW, I play my dependent Yam and independent Benge interchangeably based on how I’m feeling that day. Whether it is dependent or independent never enters my mind. That being said, my teacher liked to play his pedal F in tune in 2nd on the second trigger.

I second this advice: used instrument made by a reputable manufacturer (Yamaha, King, Benge, Holton) from a reputable dealer (Dillon, Brass Exchange, Brass Ark, Hornguys etc.).

[irtjames14]

FWIW, I play my dependent Yam and independent Benge interchangeably based on how I’m feeling that day. Whether it is dependent or independent never enters my mind. That being said, my teacher liked to play his pedal F in tune in 2nd on the second trigger.

I second this advice: used instrument made by a reputable manufacturer (Yamaha, King, Benge, Holton) from a reputable dealer (Dillon, Brass Exchange, Brass Ark, Hornguys etc.).

Thanks for your thoughts!

[hyperbolica]

I don't think you can afford to be really opinionated until you have played a lot of horns. You seem hell bent on random Chinese stuff, which is odd. They might be shiny, but you can't see the horn when you're playing. New doesn't mean it plays well.

Unless you have a solid reason why independent is better than dependent, you'll probably get a better playing horn for less money with a dependent and you may not even know the difference. Bach, King, Yamaha, Holton, Benge, Olds and even Reynolds make totally playable basses and I'd rate each of them better than Jupiter's. JP may be decent, but I've never played one.

I have a mix of new and old instruments. I even have some Chinese stuff. My main horns are US made, and my secondary instruments are cheaper Chinese stuff. I have horns I play daily from the 1950s, and they are totally solid.

You'll have a well cared for 70 year old instrument in the shop less than a "lightly used" much newer bargain horn, I can say from experience.

The main thing with used instruments is availability. You can't expect to name a model like King 8b and have it show up on the used market. You have to be able to recognize a good opportunity when it presents itself. A Reynolds bass for $1200? Totally pro horn, a little quirky, but plays all the notes and sounds great. An Allora former student horn, maybe only 2 years old, but lived in marching band with a less than careful owner... red flag.

All that to say prejudices aren't going to serve you well at this stage. Get a reliable horn and learn to play the hell out of it. And don't buy any of Aiden's soup bowl mouthpieces.

[slidefunk]

Stay away from the box store brand like JP or Allora. I know for a fact that Allora is the in store brand of Music and Arts (owned by Guitar Center). They may be asking $2000 for a new one, but they are paying $500 for it. They are built in China and the quality control isn't good, particularly on the valves. They will inevitably break and replacement parts are going to be hard to find. The horn will lose 75% of it's value the minute you sign the bill and you will be hard pressed to sell it when you decide to upgrade.

For that budget, buy used and go with one of the brands recommended by others here. Whatever you find, put aside some of your budget to have the horn tuned up. Most used horns can be great players with a little tlc. A slide alignment here, a valve cleaning there. Maybe a new lead pipe. You'd be surprised what a few hundred dollars in work can do for a 40 year old horn.

Good luck!

[Posaunus]

You'd be surprised what a few hundred dollars in work can do for a 40 year old horn.
Good luck!

[irtjames14]

Thank you all for your feedback! Appreciate it!

[heldenbone]

There are subtle differences even between two examples of the same model, but generally the uniformity and quality of manufacture of the lower grades is less than the top grades. Again, there is no champagne on a beer budget. If you really like playing the lottery, you might actually come out with a top grade instrument from one of the lesser makers -- but the odds are not in your favor.

The Benge 290 was brought out in the 1980s to be a more "legit" King trombone. It didn't catch on with the pros and became orphaned. They go for low prices but play way above their cost. Big issue with this and any other used instrument is its history. A well maintained horn is worthwhile. But one that was "rode hard and put away wet" can be a big headache.

I don't know what he is playing now, but Pete Norton (Cincinnati Symphony, and student at CCM same time I was there), spent a significant amount of time playing a Benge 290 when playing bass trombone. But,... Pete is a bit of a phenom. Went from principal in Montreal directly to bass in Cincinnati. Not many players could pull off that switch.

[MrHCinDE]

I just remembered another option I considered when I was looking round for a ‘budget’ bass trombone was the Besson Sovereign 943 with independent Hagmann valves. I’ve played in quite a few sections alongside one of them and had an extended play on a friend’s one. All sounded good to me and played well too, better than any other Besson trombone I’ve played actually. If I remember right, the trigger notes were excellent, if there was one small criticism the upper range was a little bit dead-sounding from behind the bell but I never noticed anyone alongside me sounding at all dead so could have been lack of familiarity with the horn or a poor choice of mouthpiece.