Shires Q series vs. custom

[JeffBone44]

What are the key differences? As I understand it, you can swap out components with the Q series, just like the custom. I see that the custom horns cost roughly $2000 - $3000 more. Is the build quality of the custom any better? One of my colleagues has a Q series and the build appears to be solid, and the horn plays beautifully.

[Elow]

One is cheaper than the other, meaning they cut corners to make the Q series more affordable. I had a Q series and really enjoyed it, i could be happy on that for a while but the maintenance on the Q axials was more than i was expecting. I was having to clean them just about every other day just for them to function, i didn’t think that was out of the norm until i got my current set of axials that are hassle free.
Don’t expect to be able to swap bells, it is a known problem that the Q series aren’t consistently modular with the Custom series.
Solid horns for the price

[sstelmack]

The Q series parts are supposed to be made at the Shires factory and assembled in the Eastman shop over seas. Then they are inspected at the Shires shop. The Custom line is supposed to be made and assembled all at the Shires factory in Boston.

I have a custom Ralph Sauer model and my son has a Q series. I am able to swap parts, but it isn't perfect. When you get it all together it plays fine.

I used to have an Eastman 829G. I tried the Q series when I wanted to upgrade. It was, I would say a half step up in quality. Not enough to justify the cost of a new horn. But then I tried a Custom line. I thought it was a solid step up in quality of construction and sound. From that point I went to Shires and had a fitting. From there the horn I ended up with is pretty much exactly what I was going for.

This is just my experience and opinion on the differences between the two. I think they are both great horns, and my son loves his Q series.

[Danitrb]

I only test two alto trombones, custom and q series. They are both really great. The custom maybe has a bit warmer round sound compare to q series, but it has gold bell compare to yellow, then the difference could be there instead of line quality. Definitely high level instrument. I own q serie, so!

[JeffBone44]

Thanks for the info, that explains it. All of my Shires are custom, so I'm glad about that.

I wonder how much it costs them to ship all of their parts to China to have the Q series horns assembled at Eastman, and then back to Boston.

I see there is even a Q series Alessi model now.

[JeffBone44]

One is cheaper than the other, meaning they cut corners to make the Q series more affordable. I had a Q series and really enjoyed it, i could be happy on that for a while but the maintenance on the Q axials was more than i was expecting. I was having to clean them just about every other day just for them to function, i didn’t think that was out of the norm until i got my current set of axials that are hassle free.
Don’t expect to be able to swap bells, it is a known problem that the Q series aren’t consistently modular with the Custom series.
Solid horns for the price

My bass is a custom, and I have axials. I do have to oil them every two or three days, and they work fine. I'll leave the cleaning to my tech, as I don't want to deal with taking them apart.

[walldaja]

I have a Q. It plays better than any other horn I've played but it's not a custom. There are some areas that could have been buffed out better. I'm too old to spend the money for a custom, 50 years younger and I'd finding a way to get one.

[bassbone1993]

I've found q series to be very good, but ran into some custom parts not fitting quite right.

[BigBadandBass]

The Q series parts are supposed to be made at the Shires factory and assembled in the Eastman shop over seas. Then they are inspected at the Shires shop. The Custom line is supposed to be made and assembled all at the Shires factory in Boston.

I have a custom Ralph Sauer model and my son has a Q series. I am able to swap parts, but it isn't perfect. When you get it all together it plays fine.

I used to have an Eastman 829G. I tried the Q series when I wanted to upgrade. It was, I would say a half step up in quality. Not enough to justify the cost of a new horn. But then I tried a Custom line. I thought it was a solid step up in quality of construction and sound. From that point I went to Shires and had a fitting. From there the horn I ended up with is pretty much exactly what I was going for.

This is just my experience and opinion on the differences between the two. I think they are both great horns, and my son loves his Q series.

Depending on the age of Q series this will be true, however nowadays the full horn is made overseas, including the bell and then QC’ed at the American factory. - source: tour at the shires factory.

Q series will fit but aren’t up to the same standard for sitting as the custom, I have a buddy who a half Q half custom and only those shires parts matched up, they barely fit on mine. Like all modular horns, if you find a setup you like, get it destressed and mated properly.

It’s a good horn and the older Q series are even better, the bells were spun by the same bell maker in the shires factory, it was essentially a custom bell for a cheaper price.

[walldaja]

What would you consider an "older" Shires?

[Jameseuph642]

I have a Shires Q36 that’s quite good. It’s one of the better horns I’ve played.

[BigBadandBass]

What would you consider an "older" Shires?

Pre-Eastman, pre-bankruptcy, pre-move. Really depends on the year it was manufactured. I know for instance my bell is old enough that its “standard” weight is actually heavier than what you call modern standard weight. With 25 years of manufacture there is most certainly differences

[RobL]

Q series will fit but aren’t up to the same standard for sitting as the custom, I have a buddy who a half Q half custom and only those shires parts matched up, they barely fit on mine. Like all modular horns, if you find a setup you like, get it destressed and mated properly.


Could BigBadandBass or any of the techs on the forum describe what's involved in getting parts of a modular horn destressed and mated properly? My main tuning slide (custom) doesn't fit quite right with my custom bell flare and Q dual-bore rotor section (which I purchased because of the long wait for that valve section in the custom line). The gooseneck leg is also a little too small to fit correctly the first leg of the tuning slide.

Also interested in knowing techs in the Southeast (I live in Tenn between Chatt & Nashville) qualified to do this work.

Thanks!
Rob

[Blabberbucket]

Depending on the age of Q series this will be true, however nowadays the full horn is made overseas, including the bell and then QC’ed at the American factory. - source: tour at the shires factory.

Q series will fit but aren’t up to the same standard for sitting as the custom, I have a buddy who a half Q half custom and only those shires parts matched up, they barely fit on mine. Like all modular horns, if you find a setup you like, get it destressed and mated properly.

It’s a good horn and the older Q series are even better, the bells were spun by the same bell maker in the shires factory, it was essentially a custom bell for a cheaper price.

You're correct about Q horns being built overseas. Not all are QC'd at the Mass factory, it's my understanding that depending on where they're due to be shipped after QC, some will be checked at the Eastman America facilities in Pomona, CA. It's also my understanding that they are moving toward less and less QC work on these horns.

As for the fit, well, that could be either the Q or custom that are having fit issues. You'd be surprised at some of the things that were let slide and/or ignored at the factory.

Re destressing and fitting things properly: the biggest areas of concern regarding fit are going to be the two main cross braces on the valve section and the corresponding detach hardware on the bell, as well as the width/parallelity of the tuning slide. Assuming the tuning slide is assembled parallel and appropriate to the width of the crook, it can be used as a guide for setting the bracing on the valve section/bell. Careful soldering is required in this work to minimize expansion and contraction of the solder joints which can pull things out of alignment.

Destressing is mostly applicable to the valve section in regard to proper fitment of tubing, ferrules,.and bracing such that the parts fit together naturally and without excess tension. Again, careless soldering can lead to contraction of solder joints which can pull things out of alignment. An experienced tech will be aware of this when doing this work.

[harrisonreed]

My bass is a custom, and I have axials. I do have to oil them every two or three days, and they work fine. I'll leave the cleaning to my tech, as I don't want to deal with taking them apart.

The Axial valve is extremely easy to maintain. You should give it a shot. There are just a few screws to undo, and that's it.

[JeffBone44]

My bass is a custom, and I have axials. I do have to oil them every two or three days, and they work fine. I'll leave the cleaning to my tech, as I don't want to deal with taking them apart.

The Axial valve is extremely easy to maintain. You should give it a shot. There are just a few screws to undo, and that's it.

Next time I’m at my tech I’ll have him show me how to take them apart and put it back together.