bass trombone equipment and pedagogy

[Doug Elliott]

And yet I still hear what I consider sloppy articulation even from players with major gigs who put stuff on youtube

[brassmedic]

OMG, why? I NEVER had that banged into my head. I went to great lengths to NOT sound like a valve player.

I definitely did, and I'll bet you did too to some extent or no one would want to listen. Glisses and slop between trombone notes isn't forgiven like fingers on a guitar string or extra sounds on a cello. It's a style choice when it's intentional, but the sloppy stuff is what I'm talking about. That's what lip slurs are for.

I don't equate "clean" with "sounding like a valve player", and I was never taught that. Valve slurs sound much different to me than a well executed slur with the slide. I don't believe "sloppy" or "sounding like a valve" is a binary choice for trombone.

[Sesquitone]

I don't equate "clean" with "sounding like a valve player", and I was never taught that. Valve slurs sound much different to me than a well executed slur with the slide. I don't believe "sloppy" or "sounding like a valve" is a binary choice for trombone.

The (big) difference between a valve trombone and a slide trombone with valves is that the latter simply offers more harmonics (in the lower register) to choose from (than one without valves). You can then perform "clean" articulation between different harmonics (slide-alone or interleaved attachment harmonics)—just as you would in the upper register, where there are also many different harmonics to choose from. Or, for some phrases, you can choose to play along a single harmonic, which requires a different kind of "clean" articulation because the slide offers the ability to play a continuum of pitches along a single harmonic, but the valve trombone only has discrete choices along a single harmonic. Students should be encouraged to think of the valves as offering more harmonics to choose from. The choice is often a matter of "efficient" slide technique—just as it is in the upper (slide-alone) register.

[brassmedic]

I don't equate "clean" with "sounding like a valve player", and I was never taught that. Valve slurs sound much different to me than a well executed slur with the slide. I don't believe "sloppy" or "sounding like a valve" is a binary choice for trombone.

The (big) difference between a valve trombone and a slide trombone with valves is that the latter simply offers more harmonics (in the lower register) to choose from (than one without valves). You can then perform "clean" articulation between different harmonics (slide-alone or interleaved attachment harmonics)—just as you would in the upper register, where there are also many different harmonics to choose from. Or, for some phrases, you can choose to play along a single harmonic, which requires a different kind of "clean" articulation because the slide offers the ability to play a continuum of pitches along a single harmonic, but the valve trombone only has discrete choices along a single harmonic. Students should be encouraged to think of the valves as offering more harmonics to choose from. The choice is often a matter of "efficient" slide technique—just as it is in the upper (slide-alone) register.

No, you completely ignored my point, which I will now repeat: When the valves alone are used to change from one note to another and produce the articulation of the next note, it sounds different than when the slide is used and the next note is articulated with a legato tongue. Our goal should not be to sound like a euphonium; our goal should be to sound like a trombone.

[Sesquitone]

No, you completely ignored my point, which I will now repeat: When the valves alone are used to change from one note to another and produce the articulation of the next note, it sounds different than when the slide is used and the next note is articulated with a legato tongue. Our goal should not be to sound like a euphonium; our goal should be to sound like a trombone.

Just so there's no misunderstanding, not only did I not ignore your point, I (am attempting to) completely agree with you. I am trying to address the difference between a valve (only) brass instrument such as a euphonium or valve trombone and a slide trombone that happens to have one or more valves that provide different sets of harmonics (in the low register) in addition to those provided by the basic instrument. First, on a slide trombone without valves, there is a necessary difference in articulation between two notes depending on whether they are played along the same harmonic ("articulated with a legato tongue") or on two separate harmonics (when available, e.g. especially in the upper register where harmonics are separated by thirds and seconds). In the latter case, a legato articulation can be achieved entirely by lip-slur (or lightly tongued for emphasis if desired). On a valve-only instrument, there is no analogue of the "legato slide articulation" because available notes along the same harmonic are discretely separated: each note along a single harmonic is necessarily a different valve combination. "Valve-legato" can be achieved (on that single harmonic) simply by (briskly) pressing the correct combination. Stated differently, one cannot produce an authentic glissando on a valve-only brass instrument.

Now, since the subject is bass trombone equipment and pedagogy, with one or more valves, we have all those extra sets of attachment harmonics in the lower register to choose from. Using the available attachment harmonics in order to effect facile slide technique does not "turn the instrument into a bass valve trombone"—as some folks have hinted at from time to time. There are still plenty of options (sometimes the necessity) of articulation with a legato tongue along the same harmonic (with or without one or more of the valves actuated).