Marine Band Cancels Concert

[robcat2075]

I am totally not surprised by this.

Following executive orders, ‘The President’s Own’ Marine Band scraps concert

The canceled collaboration with Equity Arc was to feature high school musicians of color who competed for spots to perform with the U.S. Marine Band.

Why? Because he can!

[tbdana]

Oh, my...

[Posaunus]

Jim Crow returns to the White House!

Have they segregated the drinking fountains yet?

[CalgaryTbone]

That might just be the saddest thing that I've heard in a month that has been full of sad things to hear.

Jim Scott

[henrysa]

I just don't want to believe this. Can you forward the group the original notice of cancellation so that we can send our own executive responses?

[AndrewMeronek]

I wouldn't be surprised if at some point Trump simply disbands some of those service bands and forces the enlisted personnel to go get other military jobs to fulfill their contracts. The bands have always been easy targets for politicians who have absolutely no clue of the value they add.

[Burgerbob]

I wouldn't be surprised if at some point Trump simply disbands some of those service bands and forces the enlisted personnel to go get other military jobs to fulfill their contracts. The bands have always been easy targets for politicians who have absolutely no clue of the value they add.

I'm surprised it hasn't happened already.

[TomWest]

I’m stunned by this news. Unbelievable.

[robcat2075]

I just don't want to believe this. Can you forward the group the original notice of cancellation so that we can send our own executive responses?

You can read all the available details in the linked-to above story. it should be free to read.

The cancellation is known publicly because it has been replaced on the Marine band calendar by a concert of movie music.
The orgs involved have been notified that the program is cancelled because of orders against any DEI involvement.
The Marine Band has confirmed to the press that the executive order against DEI is the reason for the cancellation.

[Posaunus]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/entertai ... VWqrSbhf98

These people are very sick - even for bigots!

How in heaven's name can we respond to such attitudes?

Apparently nearly half of the (voting) population of our once-great country supports these actions!

[officermayo]

I wouldn't be surprised if at some point Trump simply disbands some of those service bands and forces the enlisted personnel to go get other military jobs to fulfill their contracts. The bands have always been easy targets for politicians who have absolutely no clue of the value they add.

He cannot do that with The President's Own as about 98% of those musicians are not actual Marines. This is indicated by them not wearing chevrons on their performance uniforms, while everyday service uniforms have crossed rifles on their chevrons replaced with a music lyre.

A small number of the members of The President's Own are actual Marines from the regular band field such as Drum Major, Librarian, Instrument Repair Specialist, etc.

[Doubler]

Getting a bit political, are we? Perhaps we should reflect upon what "The President's Own" means.

[Burgerbob]

Getting a bit political, are we? Perhaps we should reflect upon what "The President's Own" means.

…

[robcat2075]

Getting a bit political, are we? Perhaps we should reflect upon what "The President's Own" means.

No one had mentioned politics until you did. All Presidential actions are his own.

[hornbuilder]

Dear "Doubler"
And we now know how you voted. Of course since this forum allows people to post under anonymous pseudonyms, many of us don't know who you are, so, your opinion is worthless.

[Matt K]

So, I posted something a few years back concerning Covid about clarifying the political policy here, which I'll link: viewtopic.php?p=133605#p133605

While this isn't an identical situation, there are similarities, notably that this is a directly musical subject. Talking about whether the Marine Band should or should not exist, whether they should or should not perform a concert, whether an underrepresented group should or should not perform with them is clearly acceptable discourse, to me.

I'll just go ahead and quote myself from that link:

Remember, you attract more flies with honey than vinegar. There are probably few people in this country who have taken more precautions than my family has, and I too, wish that people would take this more seriously. I'm likewise in disagreement with the policies of the state I am in and the country I am in and believe there probably were things that could have been done differently, particularly with the benefit of hindsight, that would have resulted in fewer deaths. However, cutesy nicknames ("Ron Deathsantis", "Gretchen Whitchmer", etc.) and generalizations such as "politicians and their supporters are responsible for a lot of the misery" are obviously contentious statements, and it is impossible for me to see these types of statements in any other light. This type of language is woefully counterproductive, and no matter how angry you are, that anger will not convince anyone who doesn't already agree with you.

We are in unanimous agreement that this disease needs to be taken seriously, and so we feel the best thing we can do is keep well-reasoned arguments on-point and away from language that is going to polarize people away from taking all of the precautions that they can afford to take. We, frankly, have little influence on anybody but the people here. Nothing we do will make a governor, much less a president or prime minister have a change of heart, enact any policy, or otherwise be seen by anybody who is not already here. But we can change the minds of the people who are here and, in turn, maybe change the minds of people who are in their direct sphere.

As someone who, in hindsight, would certainly act very differently during that time period as I took excessive precautions that have actually turned out to hinder the development of my own child, I did at least have the humility to not cast aspersions to any of the extremes above to people who felt differently. Indeed, it turns out that I got a lot wrong.

Then, as now, casting aspersions on entire swaths of people for a decision like this one is just... strategically pointless, and off-topic here. They are intentionally and singularly contentious and do not fundamentally convince the very people who would need to be convinced that the policy is bad.

It is much more powerful to suggest that this is a negative outcome, not that the people who voted several months ago are inherently and wholly bad people. Whether we like it or not, we do not live in a system where every decision is something that is voted on. We vote for an amorphous collection of vague (and often contradictory) promises and then install that person in power for multiple years. Realistically, something like 25% of those people don't even vote FOR a person, they vote AGAINST the person or party in power at the time, reflexively. Even the people here who voted for Trump almost certainly do not support this specific action, and there are probably a sizable, non-zero number of people who did not vote for Trump who are either neutral or support this specific action.

[tbdana]

Man, this just continues to fry me. I'm going to cast aspersions against a group of people.

First, these minority kids worked hard, took and passed auditions, and had this achievement and experience to look forward to. And it was scrapped in a way that is deeply insulting and injurious. This is going to tell these kids what their country really thinks of them, particularly the Marines. What an awful, petty, cruel, heartless, stupid thing to do. And it really sends a message to the youth of this country...and to me.

It's MUSIC fer crissakes! What a bad look for The President's Own (and the president) and our country. Music is supposed to be a refuge from politics and racism.

I hope millions of minority kids take this as a message not to enlist in the military. The message is that they have utter disdain for you and do not value you, at all. I mean, to go out of their way to cancel a previously scheduled music performance. Music performance! That kids have auditioned for! And to cancel it because of who they are, man, that is a kick in the shins.

It's one thing to not schedule such a performance, but they think so little of you and your music that they will cancel a performance that has been on the books for quite a while, and for which you've practiced, auditioned, gotten filled with glee and patriotism when you are selected, made travel plans with your family, and probably bragged about to your friends. And why was it cancelled? Because it was about celebrating black kids. As if black musicians aren't the biggest driving force in American music for the last 100+ years.

I can't think of a more petty and insulting action to take...against KIDS. Good grief.

[tromboneVan]

"Equity" is just one of the Orwellian terms removed from military & federal operations. It's in the EO: https://www.whitehouse.gov/presidential ... ferencing/

Pursuant to Executive Order 13985 and follow-on orders, nearly every Federal agency and entity submitted “Equity Action Plans” to detail the ways that they have furthered DEIs infiltration of the Federal Government. The public release of these plans demonstrated immense public waste and shameful discrimination. That ends today. Americans deserve a government committed to serving every person with equal dignity and respect, and to expending precious taxpayer resources only on making America great.

[Burgerbob]

Yup... we know the order. It's just stupid.

[tbdana]

"Equity" is just one of the Orwellian terms removed from military & federal operations. It's in the EO: https://www.whitehouse.gov/presidential ... ferencing/

Pursuant to Executive Order 13985 and follow-on orders, nearly every Federal agency and entity submitted “Equity Action Plans” to detail the ways that they have furthered DEIs infiltration of the Federal Government. The public release of these plans demonstrated immense public waste and shameful discrimination. That ends today. Americans deserve a government committed to serving every person with equal dignity and respect, and to expending precious taxpayer resources only on making America great.

Dude, it's a CONCERT that kids auditioned and prepared for. KIDS.

F-off with that political baloney about "DEIs infiltration of the Federal Government." Good grief. Kids. Concert. And you think this concert for children is "DEIs infiltration of the Federal Government?" Wow...

What I really want to say about that will violate the TOS, so I'll just stop here. But good grief this is some twisted nonsense.

[tromboneVan]

Kids? Baby goats?

I think that while you are casting your aspersions unjustly, you are missing the point that exclusion does not mean inclusion.

[tbdana]

Kids? Baby goats?

I think that while you are casting your aspersions unjustly, you are missing the point that exclusion does not mean inclusion.

Good. Explain it to me. Tell me how canceling this concert is a good thing for the country. And make it specific because I'm going to try to follow your reasoning...and determine whether it is, in fact, reasoning or merely a rationalization. Please. I'm sincere. Teach me how canceling this concert helps the country. Show me where I've gone astray.

And even more importantly, explain how this is good and just for the kids (not baby goats, DF) who auditioned, were chosen, and made plans for this concert. Explain how it's good for these kids and others, and not merely unnecessarily cruel.

[tromboneVan]

What if you were a student, or high schooler, but were not allowed to audition for that opportunity because of the color of your skin? Is that racism or not? Well, the federal govt is no longer playing that divisive game with resources that come from Tax payers. I think the EO explains it much more tactfully and succinctly...

[tbdana]

What if you were a student, or high schooler, but were not allowed to audition for that opportunity because of the color of your skin? Is that racism or not? Well, the federal govt is no longer playing that divisive game with resources that come from Tax payers. I think the EO explains it much more tactfully and succinctly...

That's your explanation? To ask an incomplete hypothetical rhetorical question and cite to the EO, and not respond to my questions about how this is good for the kids who worked so hard?

I guess you can't explain it, after all. Which just confirms what I thought.

[henrysa]

A bully move by a bully and his like kind. Ashamed! At least we can still voice our opinions with no fear of reprisal as surely the TBC has some of the finest attorneys in the world on retainer....can Trombone slides be used as bayonets? Asking for a friend.

[tbdana]

What if you were a student, or high schooler, but were not allowed to audition for that opportunity because of the color of your skin? Is that racism or not?

But let me answer your question directly, as you could not answer mine: NO. THAT IS NOT INCLUDED IN DEFINITION OF RACISM.

I don't know about you, but I was excluded from all sorts of celebrations as a kid. The Boy Scouts were for boys only. Deaf schools were for the hearing impaired. Senior competitions weren't for juniors. The military isn't for people younger than 18 or older than 41. Classical music competitions weren't for rock 'n roll guitarists. I could go on and on.

This was supposed to be a concert for minority kids who worked hard and passed an audition. It could have been for Irish kids, or kids under 15 years old, or high school pianists, or whatever. The point is, there was a concert to celebrate a group of kids. The kids worked hard and were chosen. And the ONLY reason it was cancelled was because of the color of their skin. THAT is racism.

I don't see you whining about trombonists not being allowed to compete in a bassoon competition. And I don't see you explaining how cancelling this concert is good for these kids or for the country.

[tromboneVan]

What if you were a student, or high schooler, but were not allowed to audition for that opportunity because of the color of your skin? Is that racism or not? Well, the federal govt is no longer playing that divisive game with resources that come from Tax payers. I think the EO explains it much more tactfully and succinctly...

That's your explanation? To ask a loaded hypothetical rhetorical question and cite to the EO, and not respond to my questions about how this is good for the kids who worked so hard?

I guess you can't explain it, after all.

I answered your question. What about the other "kids" that were not allowed to audition, because of the color of their skin? Besides, there are many other organizations that you can give your money to who only give opportunities to certain races, under the guise of "inclusion", but the federal govt. where tax dollars are concerned isn't the place, and that is what the majority voted for. The President, elected by the people, is representing the will of the people. That is democracy. As far as the President's Own being "scrapped" as was quipped about earlier, I would assume that they did not catch the inaugural ceremonies where they were featured prominently.

[tbdana]

I answered your question. What about the other "kids" that were not allowed to audition, because of the color of their skin?

You mean junior high kids or grade school kids? Because this concert was only for high school kids, you know. I'm sure you wouldn't whine about just the color of their skin when the discrimination is also based on age, would you? Because that, my friend, would be racist.

But to answer, I guess they'll have to find a different competition. Like I said above, senior competitions aren't for juniors, the military isn't for senior citizens, the KKK isn't for black people, and so forth. It's something nice for a group of disadvantaged kids. Where is the harm in that? Why should white kids get to infiltrate a celebration for minorities? I guess we're not going to let military bands march in St Patricks Day parades anymore (as I marched in when I was in the military)?

Besides, there are many other organizations that you can give your money to who only give opportunities to certain races, under the guise of "inclusion", but the federal govt. where tax dollars are concerned isn't the place, and that is what the majority voted for.

Sorry, show me where the money is in this. The band gets paid the same whether they play this concert or not. The military budget is the same whether the band plays this concert or not. You're not being taxed extra for this concert, nor do you get a refund for it being cancelled. Where's this money you speak of?

The President, elected by the people, is representing the will of the people. That is democracy.

So, you believe that it is the will of the people that this particular concert gets cancelled? What people would those be?

[tbdana]

My last post on this fetid thread. Here's my takeway:

The Marine Band (The President's Own) was set to play a concert featuring a bunch of minority high school kids. These are kids who auditioned from all over the country for the honor of playing with the Marine Band in a concert. They prepared, they auditioned, they won, they bragged about it, they made travel plans. Then the concert was cancelled. Why?

It was cancelled because the kids are black, and thus the concert was deemed "DEI" and cancelled.

Even if you're a stone cold racist who thinks DEI is a dirty word, you can't think that this is good. These are kids who worked hard for the chance to play with the Marine Band. It's not political. It won't help the country to cancel it. All it does is send a terrifyingly bad message to these kids. (And if you can't figure out what that message is, you might be part of the problem, but I'll explain it if you can't).

I swear, being cruel to children because they are black is among the most despicable -- ne, deplorable -- and harmful things that can be done, IMHO.

[BGuttman]

This is just another example of how the chaotic White House operates. This concert was planned during the previous administration. It resulted in a lot of people working hard to make it happen. Why should it be cancelled because somebody (who shall remain nameless, but has two numbers next to his Presidency) suddenly decides that the Bakke case (remember that?) applies here. Why couldn't he just have kept his mouth shut and let the thing happen and if he really doesn't want this type of thing to happen, cancel or not plan for any future cases?

Incidentally, the choice of African-American kids was because the concert was to happen during Black History Month. We could have a similar concert with just Italian-American kids during a celebration of Italian contributions to America, or Hispanic-American kids during a celebration of Hispanic contributions to America. I don't think this is DEI at work.

No, it just doesn't make sense.

[tromboneVan]

Chaotic is your interpretation, but in my opinion it is all very much much planned with precision. You are right that it was contracted during the prior administration. it's the President's Own after all they have to follow the Order. The group it was with had the E word in the name. Don't shoot the messenger. Maybe now that Trump 47 is the chair at the Kennedy Center they'll run an effective trombone audition, one can hope.

[tbdana]

The group it was with had the E word in the name. Don't shoot the messenger.

What word is that?

Maybe now that Trump 47 is the chair at the Kennedy Center they'll run an effective trombone audition, one can hope.

What does "effective" mean in that sentence? Was that the "E word"?

[Posaunus]

The group it was with had the E word in the name. Don't shoot the messenger.

Was that the "E word"?

The "E" word is Equity - as in Equity Arc (a nonprofit organization that provides “specialized mentoring support for young BIPOC musicians and helps institutions take meaningful steps toward equity and inclusion.”)
That word (along with Diversity and Inclusion) are now swear words in Washington, that will get you fired if you utter them. Promises kept!

[Redthunder]

TromboneVan isn’t acknowledging there is an entirely different concerto competition held by the marine band every year open to all. They either don’t know about it, or don’t care. They’d rather sit on TC taking a shit on the black and brown kids doing this performance and pretend he’s fighting the good fight, again, against children.

TromboneVan also probably doesn’t know or care that Americans from minority groups serve in the US military at a disproportionately higher rate than their distribution in the general population, and that everything the military does that is public facing, music related or not, is all PR and recruitment, and that axing this stuff that targets that particular population during historic lows in enlistment across the branches shows that this decision has nothing to do with “fairness”, or saving tax dollars, and everything to do with retribution.

But sure, “precision”.

[robcat2075]

What if you were a student, or high schooler, but were not allowed to audition for that opportunity because of the color of your skin? Is that racism or not?

That question probably doesn't frame the realities of how this event happened..

The partner org, "Equity Arc" is an org founded to promote and support classical music aspirations among "Black, Indigenous and People of Color" students.

I think some black and Hispanic musicians were sitting around saying, "This rap music is the work of the devil and we want our kids to have some other option." So they are out to encourage talented minority students in a field in which they not typically encouraged. It isn't just about the cost of lessons. There is every peer and social pressure in those circles to not pursue such a thing.

Really? I believe so.

I was at a college band reunion last fall. While talking to the current band director I made the statement,"It was probably hopeless for a pricey Swedish Lutheran college to ever think it was going to attract many minority students."

"Oh, no! We have LOTS of black students at Augustana now..." he replied.

(At this point I'll note that I saw no black faces among the 120+ band alumni at the event, most from his tenure of the last 30 years.)

"But, " he continued, "NONE OF THEM play band instruments!"

So I sense that Equity Arc is out to provide create encouragement for this worthy pursuit.

But can't a talented minority student pursue the same track as anyone else? Yeah, but it's up hill all the way.

Several years ago I was at a cello festival watching a notable white performer give a master class to a young black cello player. The distance and impatience she showed to the student was visible. It was like she was revolted at having to interact with a black student. She wasn't like that at all with other (white) students who were performing for her that day. She was welcoming and enthusiastic for them.

Ouch.

But your main outrage is... Why did these student "of color" get a chance to perform with the Marine Band and white kids didn't??

I bet it was simply because they asked! I would bet you that ZERO of the standard music programs for achieving high schoolers that cater to well-heeled white and Asian kids ever thought of lowering themselves to call up the Marine Band and ask, "Hey, we have some talented kids in our program, is there something we could do with the Marine band to expose them to your musicians?"

I'm just guessing the initial contact was something like that. And I'll note that "educational outreach activities" is one of the things the Marine Band promotes as a reason for its continued existence.

So why not do it? People who are interested in a concert band these days are rare. You have to get them where you can.

Well, the federal govt is no longer playing that divisive game with resources that come from Tax payers.

You're right about that. This concert that was not costing the US taxpayers any more money than what has replaced it on the schedule of concert appearances by the Marine Band that were always going to happen anyway... is gone!

Message received: High Schoolers from "Equity Arc" are not fit to share the stage with the US Marine Band! They're too divisive!

[tromboneVan]

TromboneVan isn’t acknowledging there is an entirely different concerto competition held by the marine band every year open to all. They either don’t know about it, or don’t care. They’d rather sit on TC taking a shit on the black and brown kids doing this performance and pretend he’s fighting the good fight, again, against children.

TromboneVan also probably doesn’t know or care that Americans from minority groups serve in the US military at a disproportionately higher rate than their distribution in the general population, and that everything the military does that is public facing, music related or not, is all PR and recruitment, and that axing this stuff that targets that particular population during historic lows in enlistment across the branches shows that this decision has nothing to do with “fairness”, or saving tax dollars, and everything to do with retribution.

But sure, “precision”.

Excellent about the concerto competition, being that it In the spirit of "open to all"... how does that contradict anything I said? That is exactly what the purpose of the EO is, to end discriminatory practices. Pointing to fact that the EO that the President's Own Marine Band would be in direct conflict with if they did perform this concert, is not something that should offend you so.

[Redthunder]

Excellent about the concerto competition, being that it In the spirit of "open to all" how does that contradict anything I said?

You don’t actually give a shit about any of this, you’re arguing in bad faith, and you tell on yourself by ignoring the longer second half of my post.

[Matt K]

But if off topic going on here but I don’t have time to go through everything posted here today.

The original article here is paywalled and I don’t have much of a desire to subscribe to the Washington Post. Do we know the people who were going to perform with the Marine band? And were they literally going to play with the Preisents own or were they using that term generically to mean one subset of Marine musicians? Do we know what the program was going to be?

Does anyone here know any of the affected musicians? Or someone who would?

[tromboneVan]

But if off topic going on here but I don’t have time to go through everything posted here today.

The original article here is paywalled and I don’t have much of a desire to subscribe to the Washington Post. Do we know the people who were going to perform with the Marine band? And were they literally going to play with the Preisents own or were they using that term generically to mean one subset of Marine musicians? Do we know what the program was going to be?

Here is the archived article link:
Following executive orders, ‘The President’s Own’ Marine Band scraps concert
https://archive.is/skx6D

[Matt K]

Okay so it looks like this was going to be a side-by-side.

Does anyone here know Stanford Thompson or Magee Capsouto? Seems like all the work has been done to audition the 30 players who were going to participate. This seems like a very solvable problem. Be it just rebranding this a recruitment activity (thus falling outside the bounds of whatever has been restricted) or a private group doing a side by side but it’s hard to know the direction to solve w/o knowing what the instrumentation was etc. and one of those two can probably fill in those details.

[tbdana]

Okay so it looks like this was going to be a side-by-side.

Does anyone here know Stanford Thompson or Magee Capsouto? Seems like all the work has been done to audition the 30 players who were going to participate. This seems like a very solvable problem. Be it just rebranding this a recruitment activity (thus falling outside the bounds of whatever has been restricted) or a private group doing a side by side but it’s hard to know the direction to solve w/o knowing what the instrumentation was etc. and one of those two can probably fill in those details.

Stanford Thompson says:

As you can imagine, almost two years of planning went into this event and it's not so easy to line up hotels, travel, coaches, rehearsal/performance venues, and funding to change course by the first weekend in May.

[glenp]

There's so many things I want to say. And maybe I will later, but that will take time I don't have today.

But I really want to say this for now:

I really wish we would elevate this conversation above the party line inflammatory rhetoric. Can we look past the fact that we strongly disagree on how to solve our nations problems, and focus on the fact that we care about this country (for those who are US citizens or live here), people, and music?

I think DEI is the wrong solution, but to a real problem. I don't think this concert should have been canceled. It's not like the Presidents Own organized an event that excluded white people from participating. That was coordinated by Equity Arc from what I can tell. And don't they have the right to do that? They're an independent organization with their own mission. Can't we allow a government organization/group to do a collab with an independent organization like that?

Can we move beyond the relatively simplistic mindset that "if you disagree with me and my party, then you're evil and you hate us"? Or that because you think DEI is the wrong solution you must be racist? C'mon - aren't we smarter than that here?

Edited to add:
Can’t we agree with a policy in general, but have compassion for those who are negatively affected and are innocent? Like the kids in this case? Or the government workers who are losing their jobs but were not responsible for any wasteful spending?

[tbdana]

Can’t we agree with a policy in general, but have compassion for those who are negatively affected and are innocent? Like the kids in this case?

This is my entire point. And no, apparently we cannot agree.

[CalgaryTbone]

This is the kind of concert that should offend no one - it was an opportunity for kids from a background that makes them less likely to have access to quality instruction get that access for a few days, and then get to play a concert next to great inspiring players. No one is getting a job out of this - no one is getting or missing an opportunity to study at a prestigious institution for 4 years out of this. It's a single concert with some intensive rehearsals before - a chance to maybe spark some dreams.

By the way, the Kennedy Center has run some pretty good trombone auditions, both in the National Symphony and in the Opera orchestra. Some very fine players working there now, and for many decades before.

Jim Scott

[LeTromboniste]

I'm sorry, but anyone who complains about DEI has absolutely no understanding of what DEI is, why it exists or how it works. It's as simple as that. DEI is not, and has never, ever been about discriminating against white people or men. It's about giving opportunities to people who have historically been systematically de facto denied these opportunities. In hiring, it doesn't mean hiring less qualified but more diverse people, it means making sure you go out of your way to also get applicants outside of your traditional applicant pool, because your traditional applicant pool had been systematically excluding people who DO deserve to be there, in favour of less qualified, less competent white dudes.

For educational opportunities such as the one discussed here, it can take any number of forms, including these kind of projects trying to promote participation of communities that are traditionally not included and giving them opportunities to acquire the skill so that the playing field is level. White kids don't get fewer opportunities because there was one side-by-side concert organised by an organisation that gives opportunities to young BIPOC musicians. You maybe want to look at how many of these kind of opportunities are still available to white kids where historically-marginalize people are still de facto excluded.

This is good for everyone. It's good for the employer that actually gets better people working for them, it's good for other employees who get better colleagues, better supervisors, etc. It's good for society because we move towards true equality and a truly even playing field. If you're against the idea that we should look for the best available people including within groups that are not traditionally considered, then you're advocating in favour of precisely the thing you're complaining about: favouring lesser qualified candidates because of their gender (man) and skin colour (white).

DEI is not about adding discrimination, it's about actively working to remove discrimination that is already there, deeply entrenched. The exclusion and marginalization of people who are not straight, white, cis men is real. It's not just something that used to be, it's something that still happens every day. It doesn't mean you personally as a white person are racist, or you personally as a man are sexist, and aknowledging the problem is not an attack against you. It means the system overall has biases, and is excluding people. DEI is meant to help counteract that. "Letting people get things by merit alone" is what we've been doing for hundreds of years and it has consistantly proven that it doesn't work. The idea might look great on paper, but in the actual reality, it inevitably, systematically leads to richer, paler-skinned, more masculine people getting more opportunities than they actually deserve on merit alone, and having better qualified, more deserving people from marginalised groups (women, BIPOC LGBTQ+, you name it) left out with fewer opportunities than they deserve.

[Posaunus]

Here is the archived article link:
Following executive orders, ‘The President’s Own’ Marine Band scraps concert
https://archive.is/skx6D

Did the author of this informative Washington Post article get something wrong? Was he deceived? Biased?

Was there something about this concert and side-by-side opportunity for the participants that was a danger to our national security, way of life, or even the new "Executive Order" downgrading the importance of DEI policies (or eliminating them entirely) that justified yanking the rug from beneath the feet of all these children who had worked so hard to achieve their dreams (not to mention the Marine Band members who were probably really looking forward to this event)?

Is it really not possible for our government to implement policies and cuts without adversely affecting and disrupting the lives of literally hundreds of thousands (or is it millions) of hard-working, earnest U.S. citizens in such a precipitous manner? Or was that the whole point?

[LeTromboniste]

Or was that the whole point?

It pretty transparently is, and always was, the whole point

[glenp]

Can’t we agree with a policy in general, but have compassion for those who are negatively affected and are innocent? Like the kids in this case?

This is my entire point. And no, apparently we cannot agree.

I won’t give in to that. And I think we need to expect more of each other. I think we can find a way to disagree about solutions, and still respect and care for each other as people who have value.

[LeTromboniste]

This is my entire point. And no, apparently we cannot agree.

I won’t give in to that. And I think we need to expect more of each other. I think we can find a way to disagree about solutions, and still respect and care for each other as people who have value.

I think that's a tough sell, because the positions and policies in question are entirely predicated on a lack of respect (when not an outright hatred) for certain groups, and a denial of their value as people. We don't get to demand compassion and respect from the very people who are everyday denied these very things.

[elmsandr]

It is pretty clear that the authors of the EO and the practices that accompany it want the mere presence of any person of color or woman in a position of prominence or authority is read as “DEI” and must be removed.

When the existence and humanity of others is called in to question, no, we can’t just ignore it.
Andy