What mouthpiece did Charles Vernon use when he played without a lead pipe?

[Bjorn]

Just out of curiosity, are they still being made? And who made/makes them?

And why did Charlie do it?

[harrisonreed]

Schilke 60 with a cylindrical shank, I believe. This eventually was designated the Schilke 60-cv

I'm pretty sure he did it because he could... He stopped after a while.

[elmsandr]

There were a couple of variants of Schilke pieces. Mostly made while Laskey worked there, IIRC.

I have one circa 2000 or so, surprisingly efficient. However, I am not now, nor have ever been, the scale of player to play this thing in public. I’ve learned a lot from this piece in the practice room, much as I also have from some other artist pieces… but my needs are not the same.

As for why, you’d have to ask him. I’ll say it works better than it should, but in debating the merits I would rather advocate for playing a .547 bass than for pulling out a dual bore with no leadpipe.

Cheers,
Andy

[GabrielRice]

Yes, custom Schilke CV, which was made available to the public at some point. I have one in my collection. Like Andy says, it works better than it should, but I don't want to have to work that hard - and neither does Charlie anymore.

[bassbone1993]

I think he's playing on a the brassark CV piece now? that or a Laskey

[Burgerbob]

the no-leadpipe setup gets this really amazing sound when things are in order. It's very wide, but with this crazy color to it and the high dynamics ceiling is much higher than normal. It's very alluring, and if you have monster chops and air you can actually just do it... for a while. There's a reason CV ended up with focal dystonia in 2010 or so.

Shifting all the balance of resistance to the player only has its consequences. See Warren Deck as well.

[harrisonreed]

the no-leadpipe setup gets this really amazing sound when things are in order. It's very wide, but with this crazy color to it and the high dynamics ceiling is much higher than normal. It's very alluring, and if you have monster chops and air you can actually just do it... for a while. There's a reason CV ended up with focal dystonia in 2010 or so.

Shifting all the balance of resistance to the player only has its consequences. See Warren Deck as well.

Filing this away for the next discussion about mouthpiece buzzing!

[Burgerbob]

Filing this away for the next discussion about mouthpiece buzzing!

I don't necessarily disagree, but most people are not buzzing as loud as they can for hours a day, either.

[harrisonreed]

Filing this away for the next discussion about mouthpiece buzzing!

I don't necessarily disagree, but most people are not buzzing as loud as they can for hours a day, either.

Phil Smith, at least, claims he did during his commute each day, and blames it for his FD. But you're right, most people probably aren't doing that to that extent. Back to the regularly scheduled programming!

[GabrielRice]

My understanding was that Charlie had Bell's Palsy from Lyme disease, not FD.

And he had been playing a Laskey 95D with a leadpipe for several years prior to that.

[Burgerbob]

My understanding was that Charlie had Bell's Palsy from Lyme disease, not FD.

And he had been playing a Laskey 95D with a leadpipe for several years prior to that.

I heard dystonia at the time, but you may know more than me!

[GabrielRice]

Since we've gone off-topic...

I don't necessarily disagree, but most people are not buzzing as loud as they can for hours a day, either.

Phil Smith, at least, claims he did during his commute each day, and blames it for his FD. But you're right, most people probably aren't doing that to that extent. Back to the regularly scheduled programming!

I do disagree, and I did not know that Phil Smith attributed his problems to mouthpiece buzzing. I don't know him and have never heard him talk about it, so I won't comment any further.

Norman Bolter brought himself back from injury with the help of very mindful, very intentional mouthpiece buzzing, among other things. And his assertion is that, if done right, mouthpiece practice can be a very effective way to prevent embouchure problems over the course of a career. I think I do it pretty much the way he does: relatively soft dynamic, striving for connection and consistency and resonance of tone - NOT buzzy-ness - as I gradually widen the tonal register. I also introduce a little bit of resistance with a short length of tubing to help myself keep from getting tight.

I do this every day before putting the mouthpiece in the horn, and then I don't really do any buzzing after that.

[2bobone]

The "No Leadpipe" thing definitely goes back to Ed Kleinhammer although I can't be sure that he originated it or was just carrying on an idea that he'd heard about. I tried it for a short period when studying with him but only was able to do it on a Bach 50B. I used King for the majority of my career and their great "slotting" didn't have the maneuverability from the center of consonance like the Bach did. It was a short-lived exercise and I returned to my comfortable Kings rather quickly. I guess I never reached the point where it could be a destructive issue but I was glad that I tried it !

[BassBoneFL]

Gabe is correct.... Bell's Palsy not Dystonia

Also, Kleinhammer played the Williams Franken-bone without a leadpipe.

Several of the design "secrets" of the Schilke 60cv made it into Scott's own MP line. Everything from the rim to the backbore of the 60cv is slightly different from the 60.

[chromebone]

Steve Norrell played leadpipeless back then as well. I remember he had a Schilke 60 with a special shank that fit directly into the bore of his Bach.