Chops falling into mouthpiece question

[Basie1955]

I’m playing again after a very long layoff.
I used to have pretty good chops and had a daily routine.

I think I’ve found my familiar mouthpiece placement
again and making progress.

Sometimes - out of nowhere - my chops will
get completely sucked into the cup. All I’ll feel
is the inside of the rim. Disconcerting.

I’m guessing I’m just not resting enough but
your thoughts are appreciated. I think this is
a fairly common thing?

I normally feel the pressure of the mp rim on
the sides of my chops which feels strong. Some pressure
on the bottom lip and very little on the top is normal
for me. Mp is high on my lips.
The sides flex forward for range and volume.

Thanks

[mikerspencer]

I had similar after an extended break. My problem was I came back on a different mp. The new one had a very round rim profile which didn't give my lips enough support. Coupled with a strong airflow my chops would collapse.

I switched back to a flatter rim profile and spent *some time* building my embouchure again.

[Basie1955]

Thanks for that. I also went with a wider flatter rim
which is great for me. I took a few lessons from Claude
Gordon and he said ‘impatience is the enemy of the
ambitious player’. I need to slow down a bit. I can
easily out blow my chops at this point. I was also
overdoing lip bends and false pedals. People say it’s like riding
a bike but that’s just not true. I appreciate your response.
It may benefit others in the same boat too.

[Doug Elliott]

At one time I went through the same thing.
Too much forward/inward push causes it. You may need to "feel" like you're pulling back just to counteract that tendency.

The way some people descrube chops as a camera lens or drawstring is a very bad way to look at it if you tend to push forward too much.

[Basie1955]

That’s extremely helpful. Thanks.
Like all players, every so often I’ll stumble upon
that balance point of push pull blow resistance
where everything is effortless. I’ll think OK, I’ve
finally got this. Then it evaporates and I can’t find it again.
I greatly appreciate your help. I’m confident things will
even out and stabilize. You’re so right about needing to
be aware of your own tendencies and some ways to counteract.

[mikerspencer]

One thing that really helped me was playing/practicing somewhere I could hear myself. I spent too long rehearsing with a band in the worst acoustic. I was constantly overblowing and still couldn't hear myself.
I got rapidly better when I stopped playing there and spent a high proportion of my playing week in a sympathetic acoustic. I needed that aural feedback to learn what to do again.

[andersonmark56]

I too, took a long layoff once (I'm actually on one again right now) and had a similar problem - I tried buzzing on my go to mp with a BERP, but then I found a similar mp rim mounted on a metal "stick" (best word I can think of right now) as in the Kleinhammer "Art Of Trombone Playing" book, and it REALLY helped! You can't push or apply pressure. Any decent tech can make one, not an expensive proposition, if you have another of your mp model, just have them cut off the rim and mount. Good luck and happy tromboning!

[Basie1955]

I too, took a long layoff once (I'm actually on one again right now) and had a similar problem - I tried buzzing on my go to mp with a BERP, but then I found a similar mp rim mounted on a metal "stick" (best word I can think of right now) as in the Kleinhammer "Art Of Trombone Playing" book, and it REALLY helped! You can't push or apply pressure. Any decent tech can make one, not an expensive proposition, if you have another of your mp model, just have them cut off the rim and mount. Good luck and happy tromboning!

Thanks! I will give that a shot. I’m finding that if
I think of my lower range as a relaxed version of my higher range instead of thinking of my higher range as a
tense version of my lower, I get a more balanced and even set.