intonation/tuning/embrouchure

[rmb796]

Hi everyone,
Can anyone explain why two players using the same horn and mouthpiece, can be so different?
Example:
Both players play a tuning note Bb up against the bumper. Player A is exactly in tune at 440 and player B is 7-10 cents flatter!
What could cause this?

Thanks Randy

[hyperbolica]

Embouchure

[GabrielRice]

I've always understood it had something to do with the size/volume of the oral cavity.

I'm not sure how that works exactly though...I had a friend in school who is at least 8 inches taller than I am and has a much bigger head. At the time we played about the same size mouthpiece and Bach bass trombones, and his tuning slide was out well over an inch while I had to have mine cut to get up to pitch. He had a higher speaking and singing voice though...???

[LeTromboniste]

Lip size, shape and stiffness probably play a bit role in that. Think of it this way. Our lips form a reed. Oboe and bassoon players spend a lifetime perfecting their reed-making skills to produce reeds that consistently play at the same pitch and with the same sound and feel, and even veteran players usually end up making ad many bad reeds as good ones. Each brass player's lips are as unique as any reed made by a double-reed player.

And like Gabe says, probably has a lot to do with oral cavity size and shape as well. I have a colleague who also sings quite a bit. He swears that since he started singing often, and especially in periods where he is singing a lot, his pitch on trombone drops several Hz, and that it must be because his singing is leading him to engage his breath and the shape of his oral cavity differently, with a different feel of resonance.

[Doug Elliott]

I'm sure oral cavity shape and size is part of it. Also partly different lip protrusion into the mouthpiece. And probably other things. I have horns that I used to be flat on, and now I'm not.
So it's definitely possible for pitch to be different, even for the same person on the same equipment, over time.

[Burgerbob]

People definitely change over time, agreed!

I've always wondered this myself. I am not a big person in any dimension, and a dentist recently remarked at how narrow my palate was. I also have a medium tenor voice, not low but not capable of belting out high Bbs.

My tuning slides are usually pretty far in, if not all the way in.