Nils Landgren horn - Yamaha 893DNL

[Rusty]

After the limited release of only I think 10 horns a few years ago, it looks like Yamaha will actually be producing the Landgren horn for market, the 893DNL. 7.5” bell with detachable flare, .500-.525 dual bore nickel slide.

https://au.yamaha.com/en/products/music ... index.html

Does anyone know any more info or has played one?

[Rusty]

[dukesboneman]

It`s like a modern version of the Conn 32H.
I`d love to try one.

[pfrancis]

If the bell ring is the same as the 891ZD (strongly suspect is is) one could have a larger 8” bell flare if they so chose.

[harrisonreed]

It's not red though!

[tkelley216]

I actually got to try one a month ago when I visited Thomann.

Compared to the 891z it had a very centered, dark sound and seemed to project more. It wasn't as flexible or light as the 891, but was much more stable in response, slotting, and sound. It felt like it would work well in both jazz and classical situations, good for a recording session where anything could pop up.

If I had to pick between them or recommend one to someone, I'd probably stick with the 891 just because it's a bit lighter and easier to get around on (and cheaper). The 893 would be good if it was the only horn you had.

[mwpfoot]

I am an 891z player and I want this. Saving my pennies ...

[hyperbolica]

891 is a small horn. This is a 500/525 - not small. Has anyone played the 893dnl and something like a 350c, 356, 355 or 456, 455? The latter are nice horns, but... unremarkable. Aside from the screw bell, what sets the NL apart from the other Yammie models with similar specs?

[boneberg]

I wonder what Nils thinks about it. Last time I heard him, he still had the tried and true "red horn"

[RJMason]

I think one of his students plays one too. It is lacquered black. Nils seems to have at least three red horns, one’s the new one.

This bell is basically an 897, but detachable. Yamaha’s screw bell collars, in yellow brass, open up the sound and projection. My 891ZD plays better than every other 891 I’ve compared it to. The 897Z doesn’t come detachable, but the atelier could probably do it. Though the two I’ve seen in the wild were converted later by techs.

The nickel silver slide with yellow crook are a new feature for the Custom Zs. Normally they are either a custom order from atelier or swapped from an older model. Normally, Custom Zs have lightweight yellow brass slides with nickel crooks. I’d imagine that Nils really liked the slide alloys of his previous horns so kept those specs the same.

Really hope I get a chance to try one, I’m quite intrigued.

[TromboneSam]

891 is a small horn. This is a 500/525 - not small. Has anyone played the 893dnl and something like a 350c, 356, 355 or 456, 455? The latter are nice horns, but... unremarkable. Aside from the screw bell, what sets the NL apart from the other Yammie models with similar specs?

Not sure I’d call the 891 small. Seems .508 single- and .500/.525 dual-bore horns are comparable in playability and can achieve roughly the same sound. BAC did the same thing with their Elliot Mason custom model vs the “artist” (budget) model they offer.

Of course they will have their own quirks and perks for each, but I think of .508/.509/.510 horns as shmedium bore.

[pjanda1]

So, to me, it screams Conn 32H tribute. For those who don't know, a 32H "Burkle" is a wholly different beast than most other small bores. The gooseneck, tuning slide, and bell are all VERY different from, say, taking 6H and 78H parts and mashing them up. The bells seems to be part of a 88H flare. The tuning slide is huge--in fact, bigger on the bottom than an 8H/88H if I'm remembering right (not that I couldn't check now). Burkle's idea was to make them as conical as possible to emulate TIS horns. The slide is crazy narrow, but I assume on ergonomic assumptions (that don't hold up terribly well).

I'm guessing the Nils is an homage in part because of the "narrow" slide and 7.5" bell. Not sure why you'd do either if you weren't going after a 32H. And I know why you'd copy a 32H. Nothing else I've played plays like them. For me, an extraordinary "jazz" horn for someone much more accustomed to large tenors. Easy blow for a small horn with an incredible high register.

Which brings me to the question: has anybody seen one to compare the bore and taper on the gooseneck, tuning slide, and bell? If it really is a modern 32H, presumably meaning a really good slide and a bit more even playing, I might be in the market. I can't tell if the bell is one-piece, but that'd be a bit off putting for me. Especially if it is a cut one piece.

Part of my concern is that Yamaha has also long done a .500/.525 dual bore "student" horn, both with an f attachment in the USA and straight JDM, but I'm assuming it isn't 32H like. They have 8" bells and pretty typical looking proportions, at least in pics. I haven't played one.

And if you've ever seen another 32H homage that isn't just a mash up of typical small bore parts, I'd be very curious to know about it.

Paul

[RJMason]

Doubt this horn is a direct 32H homage. Nils has been with Yamaha for years and maybe he’s got an old Burkle, but more likely Yamaha Europe cooked this up to fit his needs. Once it worked they stuck with it. Slide crook would’ve needed a taper anyway.

One-piece 7.5” bell. The same thing he’s been playing forever. Detachable bell is great for travel and, in my opinion, Yamaha’s screw collar actually makes all their bells play better. Small bell keeps it all compact which is perfect for a mic/FX.

.500-.525 bore already exists in the catalog and that combo gives you a tight front with space to push depending on the gig. Wider slots, maybe a little less finesse required. My kind of horn for an amplified funk gig. Nickel slide brings clarity and nods to those old Yamaha jazz customs Nils started on.

Kinda like the Marshall Gilkes Shires…yeah, the specs scream 6H, but that wasn’t the goal. Just what worked (that’s what MG told me anyway).

I love the old Conns and the 32H is special. After all it was Reichenbach’s go-to for pop stuff, but no one’s tooling up for a true Burkle copy. That kind of risk taking is long gone.

[Fidbone]

It’s not a Burkle copy at all.
When I used to sub at the NDR big band some time ago he was using the exact same spec which was at that time special order but without the screw bell.
It’s taken many years for Yamaha to release this model for whatever reason. I’m guessing that back then Nils wasn’t bothered about having a trombone with his name on it!
I did blow that original horn and it played fantastically well. Kinda similar in blow to the Inderbinen Piccola I was playing at the time but lighter and more nimble.
This was back in the early 2000’s so I can’t remember exactly all the nuances, only that it was a fantastic horn (but red lacquered) !
He liked how my Inderbinen played too and thought it played similar.

[RJMason]

It’s not a Burkle copy at all.
When I used to sub at the NDR big band some time ago he was using the exact same spec which was at that time special order but without the screw bell.
It’s taken many years for Yamaha to release this model for whatever reason. I’m guessing that back then Nils wasn’t bothered about having a trombone with his name on it!
I did blow that original horn and it played fantastically well. Kinda similar in blow to the Inderbinen Piccola I was playing at the time but lighter and more nimble.
This was back in the early 2000’s so I can’t remember exactly all the nuances, only that it was a fantastic horn (but red lacquered) !
He liked how my Inderbinen played too and thought it played similar.

A Piccola is basically the same horn: nearly same specs, same parts. Inderbinen only makes the bell and the rest is Yamaha parts. Just like their saxes: handmade body, Yamaha keywork. NYC techs have confirmed this.

[Fidbone]

Quite, I had my slide crook exchanged for a conical one as the original was a straight bore. I still have the original in my drawer. The replacement made the Piccola play much better.
Not sure about the outer slide or cork barrels as the upper .500 was nickel silver and the lower .510 was yellow brass.
The whole bell section was definitely built in house as I was at the Inderbinen workshop and saw the process.
There are for sure some Yamaha parts involved with the keyed and valved instruments.

The Inderbinen weighed way more than Nils horn and the bell was 7 inch rather than 7.5”
Nils’ horn was better balanced in the hand too so hardly the same

[RJMason]

Quite, I had my slide crook exchanged for a conical one as the original was a straight bore. I still have the original in my drawer. The replacement made the Piccola play much better.
Not sure about the outer slide or cork barrels as the upper .500 was nickel silver and the lower .510 was yellow brass.
The whole bell section was definitely built in house as I was at the Inderbinen workshop and saw the process.
There are for sure some Yamaha parts involved with the keyed and valved instruments.

The Inderbinen weighed way more than Nils horn and the bell was 7 inch rather than 7.5”
Nils’ horn was better balanced in the hand too so hardly the same

Yeah, it’s all Yamaha parts, just beefed up where the Yamaha stamp would go. Bell rim wire looks the same. Cork barrels are different, but only where the logo would be. A few custom heavy brass bits, 0.500–0.525 slide. Took it to a Yamaha dealer in NYC and they told me this much. Maybe this was just the one they made me five years ago? But specs were the same except an 8 inch bell that under the blackened finish looked more gold brass than yellow. That’s why I play Yamaha now. Still a wonderful horn, quite easy to play before the weight starts bogging things down. Almost wooden sounding. The carbon fiber outer slide they make is really awesome though. But now, I’d go for a Nils Yamaha over that horn all day.