Yamaha YSL354 balance

[mmendelson]

Hey folks -

I have a Yamaha YSL354 which I really like - I started on this instrument and occasionally come back to it when I want a straight trombone.

My issue is that the balance seems a bit "weighted forward". Perhaps the slide is just heavy, but I tend to tip down - or strain my left hand keeping it up. I have looked for a replacement counterweight but didn't find anything built for that purpose. I have tried strapping "things" to the brace with velcro and that does make a difference.

Is a lighter slide a possibility? Are there other slides which fit this instrument which might be lighter weight? Apart from buying a different trombone, any suggestions?

Michael M

[UATrombone]

I suppose that find a different counterweight is faster and cheaper than find new slide.

[Oslide]

There's one on Ebay right now (but you would have to pay for the two parts separately ).
A Conn or Bach counterweight would also work, though the Conn is a bit heavier and the bore of the Bach is a tiny bit wider and would need a slight padding with tape or such.

[mmendelson]

There's one on Ebay right now (but you would have to pay for the two parts separately ).
A Conn or Bach counterweight would also work, though the Conn is a bit heavier and the bore of the Bach is a tiny bit wider and would need a slight padding with tape or such.

Thanks, I will check ebay. I have been playing with it and found that when I have an ADDITIONAL 6.5 oz on it, the horn balances nicely. That might be a lot....

[ghmerrill]

https://www.hickeys.com/music/brass/tro ... eneric.php

[AtomicClock]

Cheaper...

https://mouthpieceexpress.com/catalog/p ... s_id=27221
https://mouthpieceexpress.com/catalog/p ... s_id=27230
https://mouthpieceexpress.com/catalog/p ... s_id=26932

[ghmerrill]

At least it does work for a Yamaha! I wonder if it's solid brass like the Hickey's is. It's the brass price that really shot up the price (pretty much doubled overnight a few years ago) of the Hickey's product.

[AtomicClock]

I have it on order. It'll arrive when my other out-of-stock parts come available.

My Bach counterweight is definitely not brass. Iron? Pot metal? I don't know these things.

[ghmerrill]

All the Bach ones I've seen are brass. If it's shiny silver color it may be nickel plated. Hard to believe that Bach would be using pot metal.

[mmendelson]

Thanks everyone for the suggestions. I do have a stock counterweight on the horn - it's just not nearly enough. It weighs 5oz. The instrument balances nicely with ANOTHER 6-7 oz or so. There is not enough room on the brace for a second counterweight of the same type. I could place another one on the second brace, but it's not as far back so I imagine I'd need even more weight.

I don't suppose there are any heavier counterweights out there?

[BGuttman]

I guess you could try to find the counterweight of one of the Conn Ballroom TIS horns (38H, 40H, 42H). They are considerably heavier than the Yamaha weight.

[AtomicClock]

The instrument balances nicely with ANOTHER 6-7 oz or so.

I was going to say you're crazy, but then remembered about the counterweights I added to my F-attachment horns.

There is not enough room on the brace for a second counterweight of the same type. I could place another one on the second brace

It's certainly been done before.

I don't suppose there are any heavier counterweights out there?

An ankle weight from the gym?

[AtomicClock]

See this other thread where someone used 3M lead tape as a counterweight. You could probably fit some to either side of the stock weight.
viewtopic.php?p=249751#p249751

I'm afraid of lead, so I'd consider a non-toxic alternative, like this tungsten.
https://www.amazon.com/Pickleball-Effec ... th=1&psc=1

[AtomicClock]

but it's not as far back so I imagine I'd need even more weight.

Based on counting pixels in an online photo (and will vary a little based on how you grip the horn), I estimate that a 6 oz weight will feel like a 4.8 oz weight when mounted on the forward brace.

The instrument balances nicely with ANOTHER 6-7 oz or so.

Remember that the balance changes whenever you move the slide. I'd strive for balance when in 2nd or 3rd.

[ghmerrill]

Don't forget about the effect that various mutes may have. On my bass, the horn balances okay if I put the Hickey's weight (~5 oz.) on the forward brace. But it's also quite reasonable when on the main tuning slide brace, and I have it there in order to make my cup mute reasonably usable.

[AtomicClock]

You don't want to put too much weight on the tuning slide, because it still has to stay put under gravity.

[ghmerrill]

You don't want to put too much weight on the tuning slide, because it still has to stay put under gravity.

Good point. But if you do have that situation with a tuning slide, you might think about getting it fixed.

[AtomicClock]

solid brass like the Hickey's

Is the Hickey's counterweight bare brass or lacquered? Does it stay shiny, or patina?

[ghmerrill]

https://www.hickeys.com/music/brass/tro ... eneric.php

"'Chrome plated. Includes screws for assembly. Specs:
• Weight: 0.30 pounds (0.14 kg)
• Diameter: 1-3/4 inches (4.45cm)
• Thickness: 0.72 inches (18mm)
• Bore: Opening for a 3/8 inch (9.5mm) diameter brace
• Fits a 1-3/8 inch (3.49cm) diameter decal (not included)

NOTE: Does not fit Yamaha YBL-322."

[AtomicClock]

Well, there goes my reading comprehension grade!

Thanks.

[AtomicClock]

It looks like the screw holes go all the way through. So with the right replacement screws, you could probably build a "double-wide" out of two Hickeys counterweights.
And if they don't go all the way through, a power drill should cut through brass without much trouble.

[ghmerrill]

It looks like the screw holes go all the way through. So with the right replacement screws, you could probably build a "double-wide" out of two Hickeys counterweights.
And if they don't go all the way through, a power drill should cut through brass without much trouble.

Yes, the holes go all the way through -- and screws are available from a hardware store (the ones in mine aren't original since I managed to lose one of those ) However, adding more weight would make it VERY heavy. I used to use just one side of it zip-tied onto my (Schiller) 7B clone. That worked perfectly, giving neutral balance in the hand with the slide closed. I'm currently using the entire weight on my Getzen 1052 (in part to handle using a large bass cup mute. That's working well for me, but I can't imagine adding more weight to that. I would at least have to start daily weight exercises to increase arm and shoulder muscle strength.

[AtomicClock]

Sorry. I switched back to the original problem. The poster wants to add an additional 6.5 ounces to the 5 oz counterweight he already has. A double-wide would get most of the way there. Slightly better than two weights, one on each brace.

[ghmerrill]

I agree. I'm still grappling with the idea of putting almost 3/4 lb. of weight on the horn.

[AtomicClock]

You have two more valves than he does.

[ghmerrill]

True. Is the YSL-354 really that unbalanced? I wouldn't put that much weight on my Olds Standard, and it has a heavy slide. Maybe the 8" bell on that light Yammy makes all the difference?

[AtomicClock]

True. Is the YSL-354 really that unbalanced?

I don't know the 354. But in general, I find single-valve horns benefit from a counterweight and zero-valve horns are nose-heavy with just one. I've never tried two, but it makes sense.

[AtomicClock]

Does anyone recognize the counterweight Dave Steinmeyer is using in this video? I've never seen another like it.

[AtomicClock]

All the Bach ones I've seen are brass. If it's shiny silver color it may be nickel plated. Hard to believe that Bach would be using pot metal.

One was stripped by a previous owner. The other is stripping itself as we speak. They look darker and duller than this. The flash makes 'em look good.

counterweight2.jpg

counterweight1.jpg

[ghmerrill]

Hard to believe that Bach would be using pot metal.

Okay, I may have to take this back.

This is kind of interesting, if somehat lengthy and wandering: https://www.facebook.com/share/v/1AHzrcMSwC/

[AtomicClock]

Maybe the 8" bell on that light Yammy makes all the difference?

There's a double-weighted 3b SS in the classifieds. Are silver bells heavy?
https://www.trombonechat.com/viewtopic. ... 27#p273727