Premiere of Trombone Concerto by Moussa

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Premiere of Trombone Concerto by Moussa

Post by robcat2075 »

Last night I summoned up my trombone loyalty and headed downtown to hear the Dallas Symphony play the US premiere of "Yericho," Concerto for Trombone and Orchestra by Samy Moussa.

Concertgebouw trombonist Jörgen van Rijen was the soloist.

I peg the concerto as a minimalist work for its extensive repetition of very small musical elements. The main theme is a half-step downward glissando. Although there are legato moments they do not amount to a compelling lyrical theme of substance.

The orchestra textures can be quite interesting. However, the trombone solo often seems like an arbitrary layer on top of that. There is virtuoso trombone playing but nothing that would surprise you if you've heard other trombone features. There are many Philip Glass-style arpeggios. Unlike a violin or keyboard, a trombone has to take a breath eventually so the effect is not as striking.

I sat in the fourth row and could see van Rijen clearly. He sounds very fine but seemed tired. As i mentioned in another thread here, he often taps his foot while he plays; no ill effect upon audience or ensemble ensued.

The audience ovated enthusiastically but i don't think anyone went home wishing they played the trombone or humming the theme. I predict this concerto will not displace any other work from the repertoire, not even a trombone concerto.

I wonder what its future will be after van Rijen concludes his engagements with it. Would anyone else take it up? I doubt any other trombonists are saying, "Damn, I've got to play that!" It's not the sort of thing that will work in a piano reduction such that it could be played on college recitals. One either does it with orchestra or not at all.

I think "not at all" will be its fate.

...

Guest artists will often sell and sign CDs in the lobby at intermission. I was disappointed van Rijen did not do that here.

...

Since the last I was at the symphony they have re-staged the orchestra into a more 19th Century arrangement with the 1st violins and 2nd violins on opposite sides of the conductor. This made made for moments of stereo dialog between the sections in the other two works on the program ( Rimsky-Lorsakov's "Capriccio Espagnol" and Stravinsky's "Rite of Spring"), moments we rarely perceive in modern seating plans.

...

As an aside, I've played "Capriccio Espagnol" previously in a community orchestra. The conductor, who was a former principal in the Dallas Symphony, made a very big deal of me not playing ff enough in an arpeggio figure that occurs in the finale, so i listened very intently when it came up last night.

Nope, I couldn't hear the big gun bass trombone of the Dallas Symphony play that thing either. :D

-

I was going to post scans of the program notes but nothing uploads here anymore. :shuffle:

-
Last edited by robcat2075 on Sun Apr 13, 2025 5:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: van Rijen soloist in Trombone Concerto by Moussa,

Post by EriKon »

Seems like another piece proofing my point that most of the solo trombone literature out there is poorly written and no fun for players and audiences.
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Re: van Rijen soloist in Trombone Concerto by Moussa,

Post by robcat2075 »

If you should wish to hear this concert, it will be broadcast May 19, 2025 at 8PM CDT on "WRR Concert Hall", which is also streamed on the Internets.

https://www.wrr101.org/concert-hall-schedule/

Streaming button at the upper right of the page.

-
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Re: van Rijen soloist in Trombone Concerto by Moussa,

Post by musicofnote »

Naw, not interested in hearing anyone who taps his/her feet while playing. I don't even listen to myself, when I do it.
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Re: Premiere of Trombone Concerto by Moussa

Post by robcat2075 »

- I get the sense it is not currently fashion for Europeans to smile at audiences. Van Rijen smiled very little at this event. OTOH the conductor, Aziz Shokhakimov, from Uzbekistan always smiled very broadly when presenting himself to the audience.

-I recall that van Rijen seemed to have a tablet on his music stand as he occassionally stomped on a pedal he had in front of him.

-The audience seemed not nearly as gray as in years past. There were a fair number of young adults in attendance. However, the attendance is not what it was 30 years ago. In the 90s the hall was usually sold out. Today they no longer have to sell seats in the choral terrace to accommodate demand and the hall proper was maybe 75% full.

-There was a contingent of high school musicians bused in, apparent by their matching T-shirts. One in front of me was texting on his phone through most of the concert.
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Re: Premiere of Trombone Concerto by Moussa

Post by robcat2075 »

Program notes:

Image

Image

Image

Image
Last edited by robcat2075 on Sun Apr 13, 2025 10:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Premiere of Trombone Concerto by Moussa

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Yes. I see them.
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Re: Premiere of Trombone Concerto by Moussa

Post by Savio »

robcat2075 wrote: Sun Apr 13, 2025 10:00 am
The audience ovated enthusiastically but i don't think anyone went home wishing they played the trombone or humming the theme. I predict this concerto will not displace any other work from the repertoire, not even a trombone concerto.

I wonder what its future will be after van Rijen concludes his engagements with it. Would anyone else take it up? I doubt any other trombonists are saying, "Damn, I've got to play that!"
-
As a teacher of young trombonists, this is a familiar theme. Even just getting them to go to a classical symphony concert is not easy.

And are there any trombone solos out there that ordinary people want to listen to today? The answer is that after Tommy Dorsey from 1940-50, the trombone has lost its value as a popular instrument. Gradually. We a little older grew up with less apps and technology. We were so happy to hear technical "blue bells of Scotland" and "The Flight of the Bumble Bee" on trombone. It inspired us and got us interested. It actually doesn't hold up today.

I think there are many "B" composers who write for trombone. I think Ewasen is very good. But is it something that ordinary audiences will be captivated by? Younger people?

As an old teacher, I don't think we should complain about youth and the next generation. It's probably us older people who need to become more creative and more understanding? Maybe make small concerts more attractive? Like playing a small concert for friends, family, school class?

There are so many great musicians today, getting young people to listen is something we teachers should focus on.

Thanks to Rob for going to the concert. :good:

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Re: Premiere of Trombone Concerto by Moussa

Post by robcat2075 »

I recall another inconvenience about this piece... it requires an organ. While many A-list orchestras have an organ in their hall, they are probably the least likely to program a trombone concerto.



Savio wrote: Mon Apr 14, 2025 2:23 pm We were so happy to hear technical "blue bells of Scotland" and "The Flight of the Bumble Bee" on trombone. It inspired us and got us interested. It actually doesn't hold up today.
I think "Blue Bells" does hold up. I think an audience that hears a proper performance of that or a similar piece will be very impressed and pleased to have heard it. That is all it takes to "hold up".
As an old teacher, I don't think we should complain about youth and the next generation.
As an old person, I am quite comfortable complaining about anyone, even if they are younger.
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Re: Premiere of Trombone Concerto by Moussa

Post by AtomicClock »

robcat2075 wrote: Tue Apr 15, 2025 10:54 pm While many A-list orchestras have an organ in their hall, they are probably the least likely to program a trombone concerto.
I''m only guessing... but surely any regional orchestra has (or can rent) a digital organ console and some big-a** speakers.
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Re: Premiere of Trombone Concerto by Moussa

Post by Savio »

robcat2075 wrote: Tue Apr 15, 2025 10:54 pm
Savio wrote: Mon Apr 14, 2025 2:23 pm We were so happy to hear technical "blue bells of Scotland" and "The Flight of the Bumble Bee" on trombone. It inspired us and got us interested. It actually doesn't hold up today.
I think "Blue Bells" does hold up. I think an audience that hears a proper performance of that or a similar piece will be very impressed and pleased to have heard it. That is all it takes to "hold up".
Maybe it's just me that haven listen this piece so much I got tired of it. There is so many trombonists playing this piece. I remember I liked it so much when Christian Lindberg played it in the 80'ies. But now, I don't know. It seems a lot try to play it as fast as possible. I know it's a kind of "circus" piece, but it's possible to make more music out of it? Anyway, I will never be able to play it.... :shuffle:

As a teacher I see that lot of kids doesn't have patience any more. I believe it has to do with clicking on smart phones and Ipads. When you click something happens right away. When you play an instrument it needs patience. It's a long process. Same with listening music. They have to learn listen to classical music. Because it needs some patience and self or own effort. I remember it took me some years from Beatles to Mahler.

So I don't think it's the kids faults but it's the time we live in. It's easy access to everything. So maybe we teachers should use more time to explain or teach that it's more like a process over time. And that the process is the fun part?

I'm maybe a little out of tune again, :D But just some thoughts.

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Re: Premiere of Trombone Concerto by Moussa

Post by robcat2075 »

Savio wrote: Wed Apr 16, 2025 7:44 am
robcat2075 wrote: Tue Apr 15, 2025 10:54 pm I think "Blue Bells" does hold up. I think an audience that hears a proper performance of that or a similar piece will be very impressed and pleased to have heard it. That is all it takes to "hold up".
... But now, I don't know. It seems a lot try to play it as fast as possible. I know it's a kind of "circus" piece, but it's possible to make more music out of it?
It's possible to do anything badly but "as fast as possible" can be valid, especially if the purpose of the piece is... as fast as possible.

And it has more lyrical content than this trombone concerto I went to.

I haven't felt we were swamped with "Blue Bells" anyway. I've been to a lot of band concerts, yet I've never heard a live performance of it. Only recordings.
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Re: Premiere of Trombone Concerto by Moussa

Post by hyperbolica »

I've spent some time thinking about the whole "trombone concerto" thing. There's very little reason for anyone but a trombone student to want to listen to one. The whole genre needs a serious make over. I've enjoyed some of the traditional stuff I've played over the years, but it's nothing any of my non-musical friends would want to hear.

More syncopation/jazzy/rocky/funky?
More melodic stuff?
Maybe a rhythm section?
Certainly more personality.
I think it should stay acoustic rather than being amplified.
Drums are odious, but they seem necessary for modern music.

If I had any confidence at all in my writing skills, I'd try to write an example of something I'd be glad to go hear in any situation.
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Re: Premiere of Trombone Concerto by Moussa

Post by robcat2075 »

I'm thinking of other "as fast as possible" pieces. It's all Russians and Soviets!


Tchaikovsky No. 4


Glinka "Ruslan and Ludmilla"


Khachaturian "Sabre Dance"


Shostakovitch "Festive Overture"


And, of course, Rimsky-Korsakov "Bumble Bee"
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Re: Premiere of Trombone Concerto by Moussa

Post by MStarke »

First I think Jorgen van Rijen is a fantastic ambassador for the trombone. He is certainly among the top people who play and also Premier new and "serious" material for Trombone and do this internationally and with large symphony orchestras.

However I find it interesting what general categories of Trombone concertos/larger solo works exist.

A possible categorization that just went through my head:
- The old stuff, e g Wagenseil, Albrechtsberger or David (no matter if you like it or not)
- Show pieces like Blue Bells
- 20th century pieces that are still enjoyable for a relatively broad audience, e g Martin Ballade or Tomasi Concerto
- Relatively new pieces that are demanding and challenging to play, but relatively "easy-listening", e g Appermont's Colors, maybe also the Chick Corea thing that Alessi premiered
- Relatively new pieces that are more abstract, but still quite recognizable and entertaining for the typical audience, e g Schnyder bass trombone concerto or the Motorbike concerto
- Stuff that is interesting, but may be too demanding for the typical audience, such as the Xenakis pieces or this new piece that Jorgen played

Obviously there is some overlap and personal perception in this list.
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Re: Premiere of Trombone Concerto by Moussa

Post by robcat2075 »

-
A few pictures of the event from the Dallas Symphony FB page...

Image

Image


Image

Soloist, composer, conductor...
Image
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Re: Premiere of Trombone Concerto by Moussa

Post by Savio »

MStarke wrote: Wed Apr 16, 2025 11:33 am First I think Jorgen van Rijen is a fantastic ambassador for the trombone. He is certainly among the top people who play and also Premier new and "serious" material for Trombone and do this internationally and with large symphony orchestras.

However I find it interesting what general categories of Trombone concertos/larger solo works exist.

A possible categorization that just went through my head:
- The old stuff, e g Wagenseil, Albrechtsberger or David (no matter if you like it or not)
- Show pieces like Blue Bells
- 20th century pieces that are still enjoyable for a relatively broad audience, e g Martin Ballade or Tomasi Concerto
- Relatively new pieces that are demanding and challenging to play, but relatively "easy-listening", e g Appermont's Colors, maybe also the Chick Corea thing that Alessi premiered
- Relatively new pieces that are more abstract, but still quite recognizable and entertaining for the typical audience, e g Schnyder bass trombone concerto or the Motorbike concerto
- Stuff that is interesting, but may be too demanding for the typical audience, such as the Xenakis pieces or this new piece that Jorgen played

Obviously there is some overlap and personal perception in this list.
Yes this is a good list. And Jorgen van Rijen is among the fantastic trombone player's today. But isn't it missing something? Like what are good trombone music for children? So many great trombononist today.

I have a challenge to all our top trombone players like Jorgen van Rijen, Christian Lindberg, Marshall Gilkes ; Make or play some music that children will listen to, be inspired by and be motivated to play and listen! Or performe in a way they get interested.

Why not point our slide to younger audience?

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Re: Premiere of Trombone Concerto by Moussa

Post by MStarke »

Leif, that's a good question!

And a problem that basically all "classical" music has.
However I find that young audiences are relatively happy to listen to all sorts of brass music. It's loud, it can be funny, musicians are often not too serious, kids don't have to be totally silent for others to still hear the instruments.

For example when my two older ones were I think 4 and 7 we listened to a Christmas concert by Septura Brass and they loved it. A few months back I went with my middle son who was 6 at that time to an evening brass band concert and he insisted on staying also for the relatively long second half.

I think it doesn't take too much to make our music accessible to kids. concerts should not be too long, kids should be allowed to move a little bit, it should contain some recognizable melodies, we should not insist on play some abstract modern music.

I think the harder part is to actually get parents to bring their kids! and honestly - "my" generation of parents is unfortunately not very interested in acoustic live music. so it is something that has already been missed in that generation.
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Re: Premiere of Trombone Concerto by Moussa

Post by robcat2075 »

MStarke wrote: Wed Apr 16, 2025 11:33 am
However I find it interesting what general categories of Trombone concertos/larger solo works exist.

A possible categorization that just went through my head:
- The old stuff, e g Wagenseil, Albrechtsberger or David (no matter if you like it or not)
- Show pieces like Blue Bells
- 20th century pieces that are still enjoyable for a relatively broad audience, e g Martin Ballade or Tomasi Concerto
- Relatively new pieces that are demanding and challenging to play, but relatively "easy-listening", e g Appermont's Colors, maybe also the Chick Corea thing that Alessi premiered
- Relatively new pieces that are more abstract, but still quite recognizable and entertaining for the typical audience, e g Schnyder bass trombone concerto or the Motorbike concerto
- Stuff that is interesting, but may be too demanding for the typical audience, such as the Xenakis pieces or this new piece that Jorgen played
A category that exists that I would add to that list is...

-works for another instrument adapted for trombone. Quite a bit of that happens. Example: Lindberg playing Mozart horn concertos.

Your list could also describe the situation for nearly any of the wind instruments... varied literature exists but little of it has caught public attention.

Of course violin and piano have all those categories too, but they don't have to resort to them. They have numerous knock-out-gorgeous standard repertoire works they can go to.

- Stuff that is interesting, but may be too demanding for the typical audience, such as the Xenakis pieces or this new piece that Jorgen played
I don't feel this new concerto is too demanding for the audience. I feel it is lacking in lasting appeal and star quality.

But I encourage everyone to listen to it when it is broadcast next month and decide for yourselves.
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Re: Premiere of Trombone Concerto by Moussa

Post by MStarke »

robcat2075 wrote: Wed Apr 16, 2025 8:15 pm A category that exists that I would add to that list is...

-works for another instrument adapted for trombone. Quite a bit of that happens. Example: Lindberg playing Mozart horn concertos.

Your list could also describe the situation for nearly any of the wind instruments... varied literature exists but little of it has caught public attention.

Of course violin and piano have all those categories too, but they don't have to resort to them. They have numerous knock-out-gorgeous standard repertoire works they can go to.
Oh yes, that category could certainly be added. Although some of them might also fall into other categories. E.g. Lindberg playing Vivaldi's Four Seasons in my opinion is kind of the same category as Blue Bells...

And yes, the general situation is probably the same for trombone as for any other wind instrument.
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Alto: Conn 35h, Kanstul, Weril
Tenor: 2x Conn 6h, Blessing medium, Elkhart 88H, 88HT, Greenhoe 88HT, Heckel, Piering replica
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Re: Premiere of Trombone Concerto by Moussa

Post by robcat2075 »

I imprudently passed a previously posted promotional piece

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Re: Premiere of Trombone Concerto by Moussa

Post by tromboneVan »

(4/17/25)

Finnish premier, Samy Moussa Concerto for trombone and orchestra "Yericho"
performed by Jörgen van Rijen , Helsinki Philharmonic

https://www.helsinkikanava.fi/fi/event/ ... /319925915
Last edited by tromboneVan on Mon Apr 21, 2025 8:34 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Premiere of Trombone Concerto by Moussa

Post by CalgaryTbone »

Great playing from Jorgen! Thanks for posting the link!

JS
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