When Dave Steinmeyer Picks Up A New Horn...

[JohnD]

Hi, folks,
this is an excerpt from a dissertation, which refers to an interview with DS:

https://aquila.usm.edu/cgi/viewcontent. ... sertations

So what I do when I pick up a trombone is I'll play the tuning B-flat with it. I'll play it down to the F
and down to the low B-flat. Then I'll go back to the tuning B-flat and I'll do a scale up to
high b-flat and while I'm holding that high B-flat, I'll usually gliss up to a double B-flat.
Now if the air stream is working for the horn, then there are no hitches. If around the
sautered left in the end of the U-joint at the end of the slide or, if something is messed up
in the leadpipe (if the leadpipe is wrong), then it'll choke out. So, that's basically what
I'll do and then I'll do Dorsey's theme ("I'm Getting Sentimental Over You") and little
things that (players) in the real world play because that's what the older folks like to hear
and now that's what the younger folks are starting to find again because it's a hard solo to
play. So I'll do that and then I'll do arpeggios or double tongue or triple tongue stuff
but that's basically it just to see if it'll speak. Especially for the job that I do, which is the
lead trombone/ballad player, I try to see if it has above high B-flat, if the high E-flat and
the high E are locked in where they're supposed to be and if they're not, then I usually
don't mess with that horn because that's right where they (the pitches E-flat and E-
natural) need to be and if they're not there then it won't do me any good.

Now, any idea what new trombone would meet his criteria?
I'm in the market for a new small bore.
Checked two new 2Bs ( unsecure above high d ) , XO Fedchock ( blew sound apart on full throttle ) , 3B and 3B/F (mine, then edgy up there) , couldn't get hands on 897Z over here but like the sound and how it speaks -> Mike Innes has a nice review on YT.

My actual "2B killer" is an OLDS with Giardinelli 4M. For sure a keeper, slide replated, clean intonation after having TS cut, slots just right for jazz stuff, sounds from mellow to paint peeling...BUT: Am I lost to those old Olds ?
Love their heavy bell and the 0.485 / 0.500 dual bore.....safe range to double c....BTW, I double on trumpet, that's why....

[Burgerbob]

When you're talking that extreme high range, it's not so much models as individual examples of those models. Many things have to go right, not just the design, but the build.

I'm sure you could find a dozen 2Bs with perfect high ranges if you could play as many as you could.

[Matt K]

Yeah that's exactly right. What Dave is talking about is a specific horn. There is a misspelling which is probably confusing too in this passage. What he's referring to is when solder is left in the slide crook ferrules, which obscures the bore size in the handslide. That's sloppy assembly and even on new horns you sometimes get sloppy builds on more-or-less any brand, so you'll have to check either way. On used horns, you have the added element that someone may have gotten a horn repaired at some point in time, of which the repair may have gone poorly or was not done well. On the other hand, they may also have fixed any of those issues too so used horns can be great as well.

In other words, basically any model horn can fit that criteria and just about any horn can fail to satisfy that criteria.

I've played great examples of every horn you mentioned. I've also played not so good examples of some of those horns. Another consideration is what mouthpiece/leadpipe combination you're using. Sometimes it isn't a good fit for the horn. What makes a good fit? I'm not aware of any objectively useful way of determining that. So much of it is preference. And there is no such thing as an objectively superior horn anyway, each horn and combination of equipment and person has tradeoffs.

[Doug Elliott]

Also consider the time it takes to learn how a particular horn needs to be played. Some of my favorite horns did not feel good at first. It largely depends on what you're coming from and already used to.

[JohnD]

Ok, thanks all for your input. So I will intensify my little horn safari....

[Pre59]

"Now most trombones you can play the high E-flat in ultra sharp second position, it'll lock in there. The high E is the worst note on the trombone. That high E is murder but on the Martins, they seem to be locked in just like they were in the lower octave."

I don't know if anyone here uses a b4th for the high E? Works for me, well, better than 2nd anyway.

[Basbasun]

"I don't know if anyone here uses a b4th for the high E? Works for me, well, better than 2nd anyway."
I never tried that. I use 3,5 (ultra flatt 3 or ultra Sharp 4)

[Pre59]

"I don't know if anyone here uses a b4th for the high E? Works for me, well, better than 2nd anyway."
I never tried that. I use 3,5 (ultra flatt 3 or ultra Sharp 4)

My bad, it occurred to that I'd incorrectly put b4 instead of b3 when I was driving to the beach..

[BrassedOn]

First thing to note is Mr. S “owns” those notes walking in. YMMV.

I’m a 3b player. And found a great 3b silver sonic before I found a great 2b so that is where I’ve been for 25 years. My mentors are 2b players so I was not tempted to stray too far, just to the 3b. But it has served me well.

If wasn’t having luck with finding a new King. I might venture. To try the

Steve Shires Michael Davis custom. Jazz and commercial horn. Which comes in something close to .500 and .508 sizes and 7.5 inch bell. Worth a try and if it lasted me 25 years worthwhile. But I’d also try the Yammy Z and notable premium horns if in that price range.

[Pre59]

First thing to note is Mr. S “owns” those notes walking in. YMMV.

I don't understand "walking in"?

[Burgerbob]

First thing to note is Mr. S “owns” those notes walking in. YMMV.

I don't understand "walking in"?

Walking into the store, Dave can play all of that comfortably. That makes a big difference.

[Pre59]

I don't understand "walking in"?

Walking into the store, Dave can play all of that comfortably. That makes a big difference.

Thanks for the clarification, I thought that might be the case. I found that if there's a good Bb in 3rd that the notes above it are usually pretty safe, unlike a Bach 12 with a brass outer slide that I owned, where it was non-existent. Horrible horn.

[JohnD]

Well, well, these days my dealer had Yamaha shipping him an 897Z. So we gave it another try. 2B new, XO Fedchock, my
'62 Olds Ambassador. Warm-up and go for what DS recommended. 4 horns required about 1.5 hours, but I was not continuously playing and rested in between for better results. All were played with Giardinelli 4M.
In the end, I was baffled.
1. Still the Olds is the winner. Best slotting and sound in very high range, nicely speaking. Playing against the grain Eb - E is fun.
3. / 4. Would prefer 2B over XO.
5. Did not like the sound and over all playability of 897Z.

But which one was second winner?
All those well known horns...I had expected more...hm , if these don't wanna work....and picked up a Jupiter Jtb700q, a Chinese standard trombone, with no expectations. Heavy 0.500 horn.
---> Everything better than with the other new horns except the slide being a bit noisy while not being too slow. Fat and direct sound, good intonation and easy speaking in the extreme (?) register.
I'll keep my Olds now for a while Maybe, I'm used to play against the resistance a heavy bell horn offers and I like it due to doubling on trumpet for years...it's all about air support, not so much about "strong lips"...the belly -air -pump....
Unfortunately, no tech was able to make the (replated) Olds slide working like my King 3B slide. So I decided to give up the small bore project. May be, some day a proper horn will come across by accident.