Orchestra programming suggestions

[Bach5G]

I am a member of the planning committee for next season. I am looking for some suggestions for music to play that has good lower brass parts. The orch is about 40 members, reasonable quality.

I’ve looked at the list of what we’ve played in the past (a record has been kept going back to 1986). It’s light on Schumann and Mendelssohn. Rhenish? Looking for low brass parts. Very light on French.

Mahler? I like 4, but no low brass. 8 - Symph of a 1000 - uh no.

I’m personally Prokofiefed out.

We’ve done Dvorak, Sibelius, and Tchaik in recent years.

Maybe a Wagner overture/suite? American other than App Spring?

[harrisonreed]

Sibelius 2 if you hadn't done that recently.

What about Till? Mahler 3?

Brahms 1 is pretty awesome!

[Carolus]

How about the Franck in d-minor? If you can muster an organ the Saint-Saëns organ symphony is nice.

[LeTromboniste]

Problem is a lot of the late romantic, brass heavy stuff needs a much bigger orchestra. You can't do Mahler or Strauss with 40 players (some Mahler symphonies requires 40 in the winds alone).

I'd look at Mendelssohn symphonies and choral works (if joint projects with choirs are possible). Definitely Brahms symphonies. Schumann 3. Schubert 9 has great trombone parts. Berlioz overtures and symphonies, Wagner preludes and overtures (and his symphony is an original and rare choice, but the trombone parts are not particularly nice, lots of waiting, bass trombone has a few nice solo moments), Dvorak (particularly 6, 7, 9). Tchaikovsky is a stretch but could work. There's tons of other stuff of course.

[MrHCinDE]

As others have said, something from Brahms may be a good fit. Plenty from Mendelssohn also, for example the Reformation (5th) symphony.

How about Nielsen 2nd Symphony? It could work if the strings are low in numbers but high on enthusiasm. If symphonies from Dvorak, Sibelius, and Tchaik were ok for you I don't see why Nielsen couldn't be made to work.

Maybe Elgar's Enigma Variations or some of his lesser known works, again if the relatively small numbers can make a rich enough sound.

I was also thinking whether the Planets could work with a slighlty smaller orchestra, maybe lesser numbers playing really tight would be interesting to hear. Any Euphonium players in your vicinity would be well chuffed to get a chance to play this.


For something a bit lighter:

Vaughan Williams English Folk Song Suite, I think the symphony orchestra version is actually a transcription, the original was for military band. It might seem technically not so challenging but there's plenty of room for musicality.
(Edited as I'd got it mixed up with the Malcolm Arnold English Dances until I just had a listen through! - on reflection the Arnold might be a better option, some ok parts for low brass)

[Bach5G]

Thanks for the suggestions. I’ll put Mahler 3, Mendelssohn Reformation, Rhenish, Brahms 1 and maybe Nielsen 2 on the list. Nielsen 1 is the big bass trb number, isn’t it?

[BGuttman]

Brahms 1 requires you to sit through 3 1/2 movements of the symphony and then come in COLD on a very exposed chorale. Also, no tuba.

I'd look into the other 3 Brahms symphonies.

Smetana Moldau (or the entire suite "From Bohemia's Fields and Woods")

I've got a soft spot for Borodin 2nd -- there is a short Bass Trombone solo.

Rimsky-Korsakov Scheherezade, if your Concertmaster is pretty good. Same goes for Russian Easter (with a great 2nd Trombone solo).

I second Sibelius 2, Franck.

I may add more as I think.

<EDIT>

I thought of two nice overtures, although they don't include tuba:

Mozart "Magic Flute" (1st player probably sounds best on an alto trombone)

Weber "Der Freishutz" (watch for arrangements where they moved some bass trombone notes up an octave).

</EDIT>

[Bach5G]

I’ll add Brahms 2 (although I love the intro to Brahms ), Smetana suite, Russian Easter, and Franck.

[Bach5G]

Bartok? Suggestions?

[LeTromboniste]

Mahler 3 no way, forget it. It's one of the largest orchestrations out there. You need at the very least double the size of your orchestra. Just winds and percussions are 40+, before you count a single string. And you'd need a women's choir and a children's choir. Unless you have a joint project with another orchestra and with choirs to propose, I wouldn't even bring Mahler to the table, as you would only risk losing credibility with the other members of the committee and risk your other suggestions not being taken seriously because of it.

[Bach5G]

Nix M3. I’m fond of 4 but no trombones.

Back to Bartok. Miraculous Mandarin suite?

[LeTromboniste]

Might want to consider Rachmaninoff. Some really beautiful writing for low brass. I remember loving to play his 2nd symphony, which is absolutely gorgeous to start with, and has quite busy low brass parts. His writing for trombones is less effect- and more texture-oriented; he uses us as part of the orchestral sound rather than requiring us to stick out for dramatic effect, which means we don't get as many big loud peel-the-paint-off-the-wall moments (if any) as in other repertoire, but on the other hand we play much more and contribute a lot more to the sound of the orchestra. Lots of soft and mezzo playing with a nice mellow sound and aiming for a lush blend of the brass. The tuba is used somewhat independently from the trombones and has a huuuge role in setting up the big romantic swells in the music - it often comes in a bit before the other brass, sneaking into the bass line just when excitement starts building up.

That symphony is maybe a bit percussion heavy but at least no harp or keyboard, and otherwise it's fairly standard full orchestra formation, winds are 3(1).3(1).2+1.2 - 4.3.3.1

[LeTromboniste]

Bartok is not easy music. Also a bit on the large side numbers-wise. Woodwinds usually by 3 with lots of doubling on piccolo, English horn and Eb clarinet. Looooots of percussion and often harp and up to 3 different keyboard instruments. But I haven't checked the suite orchestration so it might be a bit more reasonable.

You might want to look also into overtures and concerto suggestions. Verdi, Rossini, Berlioz, Wagner overtures are always nice. Mendelssohn are really good but unfortunately don't have trombones.

Most of the big name romantic concertos have no low brass, but there are some more obscure ones that do have trombone parts with nice moments (Ferdinand David's violin concertos come to mind as an example). Some of the later standard concertos also (Sibelius, Bloch's Schelomo, for example), but they might have too large instrumentation.

[LeTromboniste]

Oh by the way, a good resource for programming is Daniels' Orchestral Music. It lists all the standard repertoire with instrumentation and makes it easy to search for pieces with similar instrumentation.

[Bach5G]

Thanks MB.

[hyperbolica]

You should also be open to stuff that's not "classical top 40". Some less known or more modern composers also write great stuff. Ketelby, John Williams, Holst, Copland, Katchaturian, Gould, lesser known Beethoven, show tunes, movie music. I play in 2 orchestras. One gets it, and the other doesn't. The one that gets it pulls off much more interesting programs and pulls better players.

[Posaunus]

Overtures (etc.):
• Berlioz (Roman Carnival, Corsaire, Rob Roy, Benvenuto Cellini, King Lear, Tempest, ...)
• Dvorak (Carnival, In Nature's Realm, Othello, Vanda, ...)
• Brahms (Academic Festival, Tragic)
• Tchaikovsky (Romeo & Juliet, Francesca da Rimini, Hamlet, ...)
• Mendelssohn (Ruy Blas, Midsummer Night's Dream, Hebrides)
• Verdi (La Forza del Destino, Nabucco, I Vespri Siciliani, ...)
• Rossini (William Tell, La Gazza Ladra, La Scala di Seta, Semiramide, ... )
• Glinka (Russlan & Ludmilla)
• Copland (Outdoor Overture) [+ Appalachian Spring, Rodeo, Billy the Kid, El Salón México]
• Sibelius (Karelia)
• Schubert (Rosamunde)
• Bernstein (Candide, Wonderful Town)
• Wagner (Faust)
• Borodin (Prince Igor, Polovetsian Dances)
• Schumann (Manfred, Julius Caesar)
• Nielsen (Helios, Maskarade)
• Smetana (Moldau, Bartered Bride)
• Elgar (Cockaine)
• Barber (School for Scandal)
• Gershwin (Cuban Overture) [+ American in Paris, Rhapsody in Blue]
• von Reznicek (Donna Diana) {Sgt Preston of the Yukon!}
• Weber (Euryanthe, Der Freischutz)
• von Suppe (Poet and Peasant)
• Respighi (La Boutique Fantasque) [+ Fountains of Rome]
• Shostakovich (Festive Overture)

[Bach5G]

Well, I think I got Borodin 2 and Brahms 3 in.

[JoeAumann]

An Ives Symphony... #2 is amazing.

[bcschipper]

Since you asked for Bartok, how about Concerto for Orchestra? Trombone 1 introduces one of the main themes in movement 1. It also contains a nice brass intermezzo that develops the theme further. Movement 2 has a nice low brass chorale. Then there are nice gliss for bass trombone and 2nd trombone. The finale also has nice low brass ending with a furious gliss of trombone 1. Here is a recording

40 people is tiny but might be just doable. Consider colaborating or merging with another orchestra.

If you like Mahler, how about Symphonisches Praeludium? It is largely unknown. Nobody knows whether it was an early Mahler piece or Bruckner. Very nice low brass. Here is a recording