Courtois AC430 "Xtreme" .500"

[AvanDuuren]

Anyone have any experience with this instrument? Info is scarce online.

[mickael57280]

Highly interested too!!!

[Burgerbob]

Really cool horns. I played that one and the .508 at NAMM. Heavier slides than a lot of the competition, so more core to the sound in all ranges... There's nothing I like less than a lightweight slide that just disappears the sound in and below the staff.

I didn't have a ton of time on it, but they seemed like really cool designs, easy to play, interesting sound.

[mickael57280]

Thank you Burgerbob, how do they compare to boutique trombone like Edwards, Rath, Lawler?

[Burgerbob]

No clue! Haven't played the small horns from those makers. I play a 3B so everything is compared to that. I liked the Courtois but I didn't feel the instant need to replace my King with one.

[mickael57280]

You have a vintage 3b?

[Burgerbob]

'70s silversonic bell, '80s slide. Not too old.

[mickael57280]

Thanks.

Do you think it would be a good choice for jazz, salsa and commercial ? Because here in France the price is ridiculy low compared to other brands.

And have you tested the 547 f att?

[walldaja]

mickael57280 I think the AC430 would be an excellent choice for you, especially with the price advantage you have. Courtois doesn't seem to have a large market share in the states but they are still known as quality instruments. I only have their intermediate large bore (AC280BO) and play in several groups where others are playing Schilkes, Bachs, Conns, and Kings and I have no problem blending / matching their horns. They are quality, well-built instruments. The more I play mine the better I like it.

[walldaja]

Here are some Courtois artists with their Xtremes

https://www.a-courtois.com/en/artist/swing-bones/

[Burgerbob]

If the price is low, I would definitely get one.

[harrisonreed]

Courtois trombones have the smallest grip for the left hand that I've tried. My alto was easier to hold than their .547 tenor.

[mickael57280]

I'm 5"5

[mickael57280]

And how they compare to Rath, Lawler ?

[walldaja]

Courtois trombones have the smallest grip for the left hand that I've tried. My alto was easier to hold than their .547 tenor.

Is your difficulty because of the wide slide? I use a Neotech grip on all of my Bb / F horns because I'm used to using my thumb to help hold it down. When the thumb is on the rotary key I feel I don't have control of the horn. With the Neotech grip I have good control of the horn and the thumb is free to move as required.

[walldaja]

And how they compare to Rath, Lawler ?

I think that is like comparing a hand built luxury car to a high quality mass produced car. Both can take you to the store and get you home but one may have value added in terms of a plush interior and name. I would compare hand made niche instruments with the same and not against mass marketed / produced instruments. Perhaps a person with greater ability than could find the difference but I'm not sure. I believe a better comparison would be Courtois to Conn, Bach, Getzen, etc. I've never held a Rath or a Lawler let alone played on one as I have also never driven a Porsche (though I've thought a lot about it).

[fsgazda]

I haven't played the small bores, but I know that Jim Mcfalls of the Capital Bones helped develop them. Jim is an awesome player (and great guy). I have played the AC 420 large bore and love it. Here's a video of Jim playing his Courtois:




I would always play test first of course, but if you can get a great price on any Courtois, they are worth it.

[harrisonreed]

Courtois trombones have the smallest grip for the left hand that I've tried. My alto was easier to hold than their .547 tenor.

Is your difficulty because of the wide slide? I use a Neotech grip on all of my Bb / F horns because I'm used to using my thumb to help hold it down. When the thumb is on the rotary key I feel I don't have control of the horn. With the Neotech grip I have good control of the horn and the thumb is free to move as required.

No. My difficulty is because they made trombones exclusively for people with tiny hands. Especially with their version of that thumb rest grip installed. Never had an issue like that on any other make, but courtois bones are begging for me to slice my palm off with the outer slide.

[harrisonreed]

And how they compare to Rath, Lawler ?

I think that is like comparing a hand built luxury car to a high quality mass produced car. I've never held a Rath or a Lawler let alone played on one as I have also never driven a Porsche (though I've thought a lot about it).

[walldaja]

Courtois trombones have the smallest grip for the left hand that I've tried. My alto was easier to hold than their .547 tenor.

I understand the issue now, thanks. My AC280BO has 1.75" of exposed slide receiver while my Yamaha 421G has 2". For another comparison, my "old" Olds has 1.5" of receiver but it is only a 0.485 / 0.500 bore vs. a large bore.

The measurement that affects the grip area is one that ought to be identified in reviews.

[TheSheriff]

And how they compare to Rath, Lawler ?

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I can not comment on the Courtois as I have never played one. But one can buy a new Lawler with 2 flares and a case for a few bucks less than the prices I have seen for the Courtois.

Plenty has been written on this forum about the playability and character of the Lawler. Everyone knows the rarity and desirability of an old Williams, and I predict the same for a Lawler decades into the future.

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[mickael57280]

TheSherriff I live in France and here the price for a Courtois small bore is around 2000 dollars.

[TheSheriff]

TheSherriff I live in France and here the price for a Courtois small bore is around 2000 dollars.

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Money talks.

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[Trevorspaulding376]

Y’all go buy my Schmelzer or Shires Q series, sheriff had me wanting to buy and try a lawler. Good ambassador for the brand lol

Back to the topic

I used to have an ac430 extreme and played it as my main horn about 3 years ago. It was a great horn , kind of a Bach 12 feel but a little more refined , this and the ac602 .508 bore were great horns. I sold them when I took a hiatus from playing , quality is very good on them for a modern STOCK horn