The 525/547 slide project

[whitbey]

A while back I had a thread looking for parts to make a slide. Project has been completed and the results are wonderful!
I play duobore slides. So the logical slide for band and orchestra is a 547/562. And for that work it is a good choice for me. But for quintet and solo stuff is was too big. Edwards did not make a nickle 525/547 slide and I wanted so I went on a quest to get one.

I was able to buy a 525/547 brass slide with oversleeves from Edwards on close out for $400.
I bought the nickle outer tubes form MK Drawing.
And Kevin Powers Michigan Musical in Monroe MI did the assembly.

Now I have a 525/547 nickle slide with no oversleeves that plays great. I use it with my Edwards sterling silver bell. The sound is as if I was playing a single bore 547. The blow is more efficient. The air lasts longer and it is less work. Played an hour long gig with the quintet and it went off easy. I feel like I have more ability to be graceful in my playing. The blow is more secure with FF and a little FFF. That is enough. I got the big stuff for more.

I hoped for but it just could not work to use a bass shank. So Doug sold me a small shank.

The sterling bell nickle 525/547 slide combination is very nimble and so easy to play gracefully. I love it!

I did not do photos as it looks just like the 547/562 nickle slide.

ps -I am going to put the brass tubes up for sale.

[walldaja]

It's a great addition, I'm sure. Enjoy

[AlexMcMahon]

I wonder why the 525/547 dual bore size hasn’t caught on more, especially in the school band world. Lots of benefits similar to a large bore horn, with seemingly much less effort to the blow. I know it’s probably easier to manufacture horns that use the same tubes on both sides, and comes down to economic reasons.

I also picked up one of the 525/547 slides in the sale. I haven’t made any modifications to it, but have been playing it on a Edwards rotary valve section and yellow brass Corp Bach 36 bell. Great combo. I swapped the valve out for my straight pipe and it’s very easy to color across the full range.

It feels much roomier and less constricting than my 36 slide, and I can use the Doug Elliott setup with small shank (LT101 Lexan, LT G cup, G4 shank or G8 shank). This was my primary horn before the new slide and it’s even more enjoyable now. I’m sure a lot of it also has to do with the quality of craftsmanship from Edwards compared to the Bach 36 slide that’s been around the block several times and sustained several dings and repairs. The gap between the tubes is also much greater on the Bach slide.

I’d really like to try this slide with a carbon fiber outer slide and will keep an eye on updates from Butler.

[Bonearzt]

I wonder why the 525/547 dual bore size hasn’t caught on more, especially in the school band world. Lots of benefits similar to a large bore horn, with seemingly much less effort to the blow. I know it’s probably easier to manufacture horns that use the same tubes on both sides, and comes down to economic reasons.

I also picked up one of the 525/547 slides in the sale. I haven’t made any modifications to it, but have been playing it on a Edwards rotary valve section and yellow brass Corp Bach 36 bell. Great combo. I swapped the valve out for my straight pipe and it’s very easy to color across the full range.

It feels much roomier and less constricting than my 36 slide, and I can use the Doug Elliott setup with small shank (LT101 Lexan, LT G cup, G4 shank or G8 shank). This was my primary horn before the new slide and it’s even more enjoyable now. I’m sure a lot of it also has to do with the quality of craftsmanship from Edwards compared to the Bach 36 slide that’s been around the block several times and sustained several dings and repairs. The gap between the tubes is also much greater on the Bach slide.

I’d really like to try this slide with a carbon fiber outer slide and will keep an eye on updates from Butler.

ONE answer to your first paragraph is that a LOT of band directors, especially here in Texas, are stuck on the "big bore, big sound" mentality!!! Even if the students are not physically and mentally prepared for large bore horns!!

I too built a 0.525/0.547 bore 36 slide for one of my customers and it's his all-time favorite horn to play outside of his 50B bass!!

THIS config of dual bore on the 36 bell just flat out works!

Not 100% sold on the carbon outers yet, but that's just MY opinion! There are many folks that I play with that LOVE them and sound fantastic playing them!!! But it IS worth a try!!!


Eric

[bimmerman]

I've had one of the Edwards 525/547 slides for a long time now and it's my favorite setup for the horn for my ability level. One suggestion though, for DE players-- use a 5 shank. Big difference.

I wonder how hard it'd be to build an all nickel outer slide without sacrificing the existing outer slide.....

[Burgerbob]

One big reason is that small shank mouthpiece selection for that size horn is very limited.

[LIBrassCo]

One big reason is that small shank mouthpiece selection for that size horn is very limited.

So make it large shank, problem solved

[BGuttman]

One big reason is that small shank mouthpiece selection for that size horn is very limited.

Option(s) 2:

Doug Elliott or Terry Warburton (2 piece)

[whitbey]

My tech did try making a receiver for a large shank. For the MP to be at the proper depth the tubing was to thin to not wrinkle. Get it a bit thicker and the MP was 3/4" taller.

I called Doug Elliot. He asked me a few questions on how I wanted the horn to play and sent a small shank F5. As often the case with Doug's advice, I did not need to try anything else.

[Matt K]

I'm a little surprised that the Edwards barrels aren't large enough for large shank pipes. Mine fortunately worked out and I ended up settling on a Conn X leadpipe. Very strange pipe, I'm a little surprised it worked out. 2 piece and the receiver has a rather large gap between the end of the mouthpiece and the beginning of the actual venturi including a ledge... seems like they may have just soldered a small shank pipe to a large shank receiver or something. One of those things that I'd like to try out several more when I have the chance to visit a factory of another tradeshow. Although I do far less playing of that horn now... almost everything is on my commercial horn so hard to justify such an expense!

[LIBrassCo]

My tech did try making a receiver for a large shank. For the MP to be at the proper depth the tubing was to thin to not wrinkle. Get it a bit thicker and the MP was 3/4" taller.

I called Doug Elliot. He asked me a few questions on how I wanted the horn to play and sent a small shank F5. As often the case with Doug's advice, I did not need to try anything else.

Fake news. It can be done, i did it

[LIBrassCo]

.10" higher than a t3 leadpipe ring

[Matt K]

Actually, funny that Jeff brings that up because he also did the work for my Conn X pipe to make it compatible with Shires threads instead of the Conn threads so while my slide will accept 'normal' large shank pipes without the additional length, the Conn X has around 3/4" on top of it and it actually seems to influence the intonation far less than I thought it would. Granted, I also play with my TS all the way in so that might have something to do with it but I wouldn't necessarily let it dissuade you from going that route if you wanted something like that made.

[bimmerman]

I think the issue is the taper from the mouthpiece receiver to the .525-ish tube inner diameter is...well there isn't a taper. I wonder whether the Shires and Conns that let you use large shanks on the .525 tube are tapered or have a flared upper inner near-sided tube.

The reason I suspect this is that you can cut a .547 Edwards leadpipe to fit inside the .525 bore slide, but it ends up being 16M sized. You basically lop off any pipe after the venturi.

I'll post a photo tonight when I'm home from work, but I tried this experiment. Personally, a Doug x5 shank works wonders, far better than this shorty leadpipe attempt.

Also, fun fact-- Edwards sometimes uses .522 tubes. My slide is a .525/547 but my dad's (bought during clearance sale) is a .522 upper. The big leadpipe-in-small-tube experiment leadpipe does not screw down flush in his horn while it does in mine.