The sound and play of slide width?

[whitbey]

A wider slide vs a narrow slide.

How do they play different?

How do they sound different?

[BGuttman]

A wider or narrower slide per se doesn't really do much. But if you have a large neck a narrow slide can force you to put the mouthpiece in a sub-optimal location on your lips. That will affect your playing and you can do that with a wide or a narrow slide.

There are so many factors that affect the response of a particular trombone that slide width is almost impossible to separate out.

Not to metion that there is a very strong placebo effect and if you think one or another will work for you, it will.

[hyperbolica]

I had a 10h and converted the slide to wide crook. The sound went from your average 10h/6h sound to something a bit fatter, broader. It was like bouncing the bore up a notch. Plus, it was just way more comfortable to play. I kept the crook material the same (nickel silver).

The crook was designed for 509, but I was using it on 500 bore. It worked very well.

[LeTromboniste]

I had a 10h and converted the slide to wide crook. The sound went from your average 10h/6h sound to something a bit fatter, broader. It was like bouncing the bore up a notch. Plus, it was just way more comfortable to play. I kept the crook material the same (nickel silver).

The crook was designed for 509, but I was using it on 500 bore. It worked very well.

But so the bore of the crook was also bigger, which could account for the entire change in feel and sound.



On a certain scale, a small bend radius increases the effective bore, however (I could be wrong) I don't think a slide bow is a sharp enough bend where it would really have an effect, and between a narrow and a wide slide the difference in the bend radius is not much.

[BGuttman]

...

On a certain scale, a small bend radius increases the effective bore, however (I could be wrong) I don't think a slide bow is a sharp enough bend where it would really have an effect, and between a narrow and a wide slide the difference in the bend radius is not much.

Add to that the difference of a single radius versus a dual radius. King is the classic single radius and Bach is the classic dual radius.

[bellend]

During my time at Rath's we tried various different radius shapes and it definitely makes a difference.

The trouble is .... EVERYTHING makes a difference!!!!

Having fitted wide slide bows to a couple of horns King 2B+ / Conn 100H I think it is important to try and maintain the same I.D. as the original otherwise the resistance changes and usually not in a good way. Intonation can go a bit out of whack with the addition of just a small bit of extra tubing in the crook but it can be done.

As I mentioned in the sister post to this one I currently play a Besson 940 which as far as I know is the only small bore horn to come out of any factory with a wider slide crook as standard. A a consequence it doesn't suffer any of the aforementioned issues.


FWIW

BellEnd

[TheBoneRanger]

The trouble is .... EVERYTHING makes a difference!!!!

Exactly.

I had one of the wide glide crooks installed on my 16m. Other than the difference in width, the bore size is also a little bigger than the somewhat undersized one usually found on the 16m.

Again, it's hard to tell exactly what the effect is, because the slide was completely rebuilt, of course, to fit the crook, which will have an effect. I also had the stock, short leadpipe pulled in favour of much more efficient Shires pipes. To compensate for the extra width, I had the some length trimmed from the tuning slide end of the horn.

So, one "simple swap" becomes quite a series of changes very quickly.

I think the best chance you have of answering this question is to get a couple of Shires slides. Their T47 and TW47 differ only in width.

Andrew

[norbie2018]

I have played a narrow and wide slide on the same Yamaha 882go bell section and prefer the wide. I have a larger neck and the narrow slide forces me to hold the trombone in an uncomfortable way in order to get the correct angle to the horn. The wide slide alleviates this problem. The wide slide also has the advantage of a meatier low register and I believe broader sound.

Really, the only way to tell for yourself is to simply try both, which is frequently easier said than done, but truly the only way.

[bellend]

I have played a narrow and wide slide on the same Yamaha 882go bell section and prefer the wide. I have a larger neck and the narrow slide forces me to hold the trombone in an uncomfortable way in order to get the correct angle to the horn. The wide slide alleviates this problem. The wide slide also has the advantage of a meatier low register and I believe broader sound.

Really, the only way to tell for yourself is to simply try both, which is frequently easier said than done, but truly the only way.

You have to be aware that when a lot of manufacturers offer a wider crook option on large bore horns this quite often also means a jump in bore size.
I think this all harks back to the Bach 42 which I believe uses the crook off a 50B bass trombone ( I'm sure someone will correct me if I'm wrong) . So when people say "Oh a wide crook plays differently" it's not really surprising if the bore size has also increased, If it was wider with the same bore I think the contrast would be less marked.

BellEnd

[norbie2018]

I have played a narrow and wide slide on the same Yamaha 882go bell section and prefer the wide. I have a larger neck and the narrow slide forces me to hold the trombone in an uncomfortable way in order to get the correct angle to the horn. The wide slide alleviates this problem. The wide slide also has the advantage of a meatier low register and I believe broader sound.

Really, the only way to tell for yourself is to simply try both, which is frequently easier said than done, but truly the only way.

You have to be aware that when a lot of manufacturers offer a wider crook option on large bore horns this quite often also means a jump in bore size.
I think this all harks back to the Bach 42 which I believe uses the crook off a 50B bass trombone ( I'm sure someone will correct me if I'm wrong) . So when people say "Oh a wide crook plays differently" it's not really surprising if the bore size has also increased, If it was wider with the same bore I think the contrast would be less marked.

BellEnd

Yes, bore matters. I didn't switch to a tenor wide end crook, but a bass end crook similar to what you'd find in a Bach 42. Interestingly, when I was fit for a trombone at Edwards we ruled out a wide slide with a tenor crook in favor of the bass end crook fairly early in the process. Better response and sound - for me.