Holton TR181 v Rath R900

[Johnbob]

I'm considering an upgrade from my 421g and am thinking about a TR181 or a Rath R900. Most of my playing is in a big band. Any advice please?

[Specialk3700]

I haven't played a r900 but a tr181 can definitely bark. But, they're definitely hard to play. The tuning on mine was all over the place and it didn't play very even in any range. It had a fantastic sound though.

[Mv2541]

R900 or Shires Q

[Johnbob]

R900 or Shires Q

Thanks. Is this related to an open/closed wrap? What's the difference when playing. I've only played my Yahsma.

Thanks

[WeekendWailer]

I haven't played the Rath but I have a Tr-181 as my bass mostly because they are out there and cheap (for a bass bone). I think a lot of high school jazz bands use them for that reason. I would agree on the tuning issue. Mine has pretty wide slots regardless of mouthpieces I have tried. For jazz, I think it could work since I can make it edgy when I want but it isn't always like that. Some people complain the horn is stuffy but that only bothers me when I am playing with a mute and through the valves. Then I really notice the difference in blow. Something to consider since jazz uses mutes a lot.

[etbone]

I don't know, if I'd buy a new one. Old ones, are available, at bargain prices. Much like the old Benge 290s, they fill a niche. There's a couple on ebay, you better hurry, online retailers.

I didn't find mine hard to play. Yes, you have to adjust to them (any horn really) I picked mine, over a newer Yamaha YSB-622. One caveat is rotor size. Holton's rotors are small, by today's standards. They have to be kept, adjusted. Bigger valves, are a littler more friendly, to bad adjustment.

Question is are you buying new, or used?

[Kevbach33]

What size mouthpiece are you using? The Holton TR181 is pretty sensitive to mouthpiece choice. In particular, in my experience a more moderate size works better to bring the best out of a Holton. That's not to say a larger mouthpiece won't work, but you'll work harder to get the desired results, especially for big band work. I thought I sounded best on a Schilke 59 (already pretty big) since I didn't have access to something smaller during my high school days. It felt better than a 60 (too big for me on that bass), that's for sure.

If you use a big piece, the Rath R900 or similar modern bass trombone may be a better fit. But i have no experience with that horn so caveat emptor.

[Johnbob]

What size mouthpiece are you using? The Holton TR181 is pretty sensitive to mouthpiece choice. In particular, in my experience a more moderate size works better to bring the best out of a Holton. That's not to say a larger mouthpiece won't work, but you'll work harder to get the desired results, especially for big band work. I thought I sounded best on a Schilke 59 (already pretty big) since I didn't have access to something smaller during my high school days. It felt better than a 60 (too big for me on that bass), that's for sure.

If you use a big piece, the Rath R900 or similar modern bass trombone may be a better fit. But i have no experience with that horn so caveat emptor.

Thanks
2G

[Mv2541]

R900 or Shires Q

Thanks. Is this related to an open/closed wrap? What's the difference when playing. I've only played my Yahsma.

Thanks

They are just different flavors of horn in general, but each balanced pretty well in their own right. If you are planning to buy new I would try and play both and see which one you agree with more.

[FOSSIL]

Old 181's were good and reliable, played better in tune than most horns and made a good sound with the right player and mouthpiece. Shame it sounds like they went so wrong....

Chris

[Johnbob]

Beginning to think the TR181 might not be the best horn. Was looking at a used one for around £2300. Yamaha refer to the 421 as an intermediate bone and so wanted to step up to the next level. What are the best alternatives? Am I better keeping the 421 and my money?

[FOSSIL]

A good 421 is very fine indeed. Many high end horns do not play as well.

Chris

[Specialk3700]

Old 181's were good and reliable, played better in tune than most horns and made a good sound with the right player and mouthpiece. Shame it sounds like they went so wrong....

Chris

I had a well kept 181 with a serial number dating it to 1979. I don't think it's about the age. I think the consistency from holton was never very good.

[tctb]

Stay with the 421 unless you have found something that justifies the extra money!

[Lastbone]

Hey there,
I don't know about anyone else, but I've never played or heard a bad Holton 181. Hard to go too far wrong there, especially for the money.