A strange coincidence?

[imsevimse]

Hi

I just checked the serial numbers of my two Holton TR-185 basstrombones from 1968 and noticed the serial numbers are very close. In fact they are as close as they possibly can be.

Strange they both ended up with me.

The first one was left in the inventory of a Washington DC music store for six years before the first owner bought it in 1974 and I (third owner) bought it from the second owner of eBay US in the year 2014 The second TR-185 I bought in Sweden from a friend living in Malnö in the year 2018. Just today I noticed this one has the next number in line. Both serials start 4572XX. What are the odds for that?

How strange is it not that these horns probably came out of the factory at the same time and might even have been compared together, and after have been approved they started their journey. It might even have been the same truck driver who delivered them. Then one was sold and started to make music and the other one stayed forgotten in a music store for six years before it came to life. Then both horns had their story until some 50 years later when they meet in Sweden. Now again they are next to eachother on two stands to be compared. What are the odds?

/Tom

[chromebone]

I remember speaking to Larry Ramierez, the main instrument designer at Holton during the 70’s- 90’s, and he said that the combined total production of the 169/185 from 1955-1970 was about 500 instruments, about 33 a year average over 15 years production. So the chances were better than other models with higher production that two consecutive ones could end up together. But I’ll bet the two instruments you have are a bit different. The 185 was basically a special order, and almost no two are the same.

[Kingfan]

Great story!

[Mikebmiller]

FWIW, my wife and I have nearly identical social security numbers. Out of 9 digits in a SSN, we have 7 in common.

[Doug Elliott]

Two years ago I sold a Williams 6 to a guy who already had a Williams 8. I delivered it, and in comparing the horns I noticed they were consecutive serial numbers.

[boneapart]

The secret lives of trombones! This is the stuff of Ann Curry's PBS show, We'll Meet Again.

[mrdeacon]

I'll always regret selling the early TR185 I had! What a special horn. One of these days I'll pick up another early TR185, E185 or 169!!

[imsevimse]

I remember speaking to Larry Ramierez, the main instrument designer at Holton during the 70’s- 90’s, and he said that the combined total production of the 169/185 from 1955-1970 was about 500 instruments, about 33 a year average over 15 years production. So the chances were better than other models with higher production that two consecutive ones could end up together. But I’ll bet the two instruments you have are a bit different. The 185 was basically a special order, and almost no two are the same.

Thank you!

You are right about that. They are not the same. Both have the second "birds nest" valve which was an option. One is in Bb/F/Eb and one is in Bb/F/D. One of them has split triggers and they play and sound different.

And about the odds. Thank you for the explanation. The odds to find a second TR-185 with consecutive numbers is then 1/500 with a random buy and 1/33 if you beforehand seek especially for horns of a predefined year. The odds still are very high because I did not actively search for a special year nor did I plan to buy two TR-185 it just happened because I thought the second to be a E-185 which it wasn't The seller gave me the wrong information but when I got the horn I decided to keep it anyway, basically because it was a good price, better than the first one and it also had the split triggers and second valve in D. Who in the right mind want two old TR-185? The odds are pretty high someone has two with consecutive numbers anyway but not as high as I first thought

/Tom

[chromebone]

Who in the right mind want two old TR-185?

I know of one great player that has more than 2 of them, and he’s pretty sane. It’s simply one of the greatest bass trombones ever made. Nothing sounds like them. Even though there are differences between individual instruments, they all share that characteristic sound that is like no other. Sadly, the trend nowadays is to sound as much like everyone else as possible, and show up to the gig with the “in” equipment, lest you get the hairy eyeball from the rest of the section.
If Holton still made the 185, and players were getting their name plastered on the website as an endorsing artist, no one would give it a second thought.

[WGWTR180]

At one point I owned 2 TR 180s with 9 and 1/2 inch bells. I still own 1 and sold the other as it was beat up. They were 7 serial numbers apart from each other.

[chromebone]

There were very few 9 1/2 “ 180’s made. Those early 180’s were a 185 bell on the 180 valve setup, also a special order. They were made concurrently along with the 185 before the 10” version with the Giantz bar replaced the 185 all together as a stock model.

[WGWTR180]

There were very few 9 1/2 “ 180’s made. Those early 180’s were a 185 bell on the 180 valve setup, also a special order. They were made concurrently along with the 185 before the 10” version with the Giantz bar replaced the 185 all together as a stock model.

One of my closest friends has several 185s, 3 I believe. I've compared my 180 bell flare to all 3 of his 185 flares. There is a slight difference in the throat size for sure. I do know that everything at Holton back then was consistently inconsistent. The playing slides on my 2 180s were not interchangeable! Go figure.

[JohnL]

Not sure if Holton did this, but it's a common practice in manufacturing to set aside blocks of serial numbers for specific models.

[bellend]

When working in a music shop a guy came in to try a 72H we had for sale and when he looked the serial number was the same as his phone number !!!

He bought it

BellEnd