Thoughts on a Benge 290?

[Bach5G]

A friend was thinking of selling his 290 bass.

Any opinions on these? A lot of people think highly of Benge tenors.

[Elow]

I used my schools beat up one, short story: i did not like it. I’m a small guy and it hurt to hold every time. I used a 5g in it before i knew there were bass mouthpieces so i can’t really say anything on how it played.

[fsgazda]

I think that the Benge 290 is one of the more underrated basses of the last 50 years. I have always been impressed with how they play and sound.

[LeTromboniste]

I think that the Benge 290 is one of the more underrated basses of the last 50 years. I have always been impressed with how they play and sound.

Yes, I had a chance to buy one for a really low price in my first year of college, but being poor and the university being about to acquire a bass at the time that I could then borrow, I chose not to, and have regretted it ever since. A friend of mine ended up buying it, so I've been able to borrow it a few times for projects and an audition in the years after that. Such an easy horn to blow and get a good sound on, and works equally well in orchestra as in big band.

[Burgerbob]

Meh. Kind of a strange sound... a bit light in some ways, wide in others. I've played one and played next to one plenty, and I'm always underwhelmed.

[Crazy4Tbone86]

I borrowed a friend's 290 and played it for about 3 months in the early 2000s. I loved the way it articulated, responded and sounded to me. When I got feedback from musicians in the audience, their read was different. They felt the sound lacked punch and projection. Burgerbob's "wide" is a great description.

[Crazytrombonist505]

I have one and I'm fairly impressed with it. Granted, I'm definetly not a pro bass player by any means and my primary instrument is tenor trombone. For what I need, the horn gets the job done. I haven't played that many basses for any decent period of time so I'm not really sure how it would stack up against others. It plays with a big sound, and as stated above, it can be quite a wide sound. It's a heavy bass, but for me, using a Sheridan get-a-grip helps immensly. Are there better bass trombones out there? Probably, but from my experience, the Benge is a decent option.

[Bach5G]

I borrowed a friend's 290 and played it for about 3 months in the early 2000s. I loved the way it articulated, responded and sounded to me. When I got feedback from musicians in the audience, their read was different. They felt the sound lacked punch and projection. Burgerbob's "wide" is a great description.

That seems like a fairly typical description of 10” (and larger) bells.

[Burgerbob]

I borrowed a friend's 290 and played it for about 3 months in the early 2000s. I loved the way it articulated, responded and sounded to me. When I got feedback from musicians in the audience, their read was different. They felt the sound lacked punch and projection. Burgerbob's "wide" is a great description.

That seems like a fairly typical description of 10” (and larger) bells.

I think some of it is definitely the bell. The 290 also doesn't have a ton of lower fundamental in the sound, especially going to the side. Maybe people like that, but when you're playing next to it, it can be hard to get the pitch center to tune to in a section. This is with top-notch players, as well.

[Amconk]

I played on one in college for a short period. From my experience, it sounds better to the person playing it than it does to the people in front of it, if that makes any sense. The sound just didn’t travel. Could have just been that particular horn. There’s gems and duds in every make and model.

[FOSSIL]

When the model came out I got one from the local shop to try in the orchestra...didn't even last the day...just not what I was looking for...that was a long time ago.

Chris

[RConrad]

I have a friend that has one that I played next to for a while. I thought it sounded nice and when I played it the horn felt pretty open and liked the slide action. With that said my friend always seemed to be messing with it as he was never quite happy with the sound.

[Kingfan]

I have sold horns to friends and they do not sound like I did, even with the same mouthpiece. A Benge 290 may have certain characteristics, but each horn is unique and so is each player. Try before you buy.

[modelerdc]

I've noticed that some tenor trombone players who play bass trombone once in a blue moon love the 290, but few full time pros use them. My take is the over sized bell and tuning slide sound kinda fat with a 2G or 1 1/2G, an easy doublers horn, or good as a slide tuba in trombone choir. Maybe the 5th bone playing tubaesk parts in a college symphonic jazz band. But with a large modern sized bass trombone mouthpiece, they strike me as kinds dull, particularly from the mid range on up. Not as versatile as other makes. You take one of these into an high quality ensemble and it's harder to make it work but it's very hard to explain this some players.

[LeTromboniste]

I've noticed that some tenor trombone players who play bass trombone once in a blue moon love the 290, but few full time pros use them. My take is the over sized bell and tuning slide sound kinda fat with a 2G or 1 1/2G, an easy doublers horn, or good as a slide tuba in trombone choir. Maybe the 5th bone playing tubaesk parts in a college symphonic jazz band. But with a large modern sized bass trombone mouthpiece, they strike me as kinds dull, particularly from the mid range on up. Not as versatile as other makes. You take one of these into an high quality ensemble and it's harder to make it work but it's very hard to explain this some players.

It does seem to like smaller mouthpieces, in my experience (although I wouldn't call a 1.5G merely a doubling size or not a "modern size", plenty of people who play that size). The particular 290 I mentioned in my previous post actually responded really well to extra-deep tenor-width mouthpieces (I like to use my Ferguson 2 for lighter repertoire like Haydn, Beethoven, Chopin, etc to get a lighter bass sound, but not all bass trombones will let you do that).

I think it's fair to say it's a good horn for doublers or amateur bass players because it's quite easy to sound good on, and because of the great quality-cost ratio, but probably not the best option for most full-time bass players.

[hyperbolica]

I like all the other Benge bones. The 170 and 175 in particular. The 290 just felt too big to me, with the big bell. If you play it and like it, that's all that really matters. It's a pro level horn in a line of great horns, it's just not one of my favorites.

[fsgazda]

I do think that a 9.5 inch bell would be better, but I am always partial to that size.

[Bengebasstrombone]

I have a 290 myself- an early model (which some say is better than the later ones). I use a 1G megatone in it, it seems to respond fine across the registers. The tone can be a little bland if you're not "connecting" with the instrument- put a little energy into it, and it'll come back out in the tone color. The valves are over-bored to 0.585" so the low register doesn't "bark" or anything. The rotors blow pretty open, and they rotate the same way so the articulation is smooth on both of them (on some other basses, the 1st valve goes "swish" and the 2nd goes "thunk" because of opposite valve rotation). The early models have a 2nd valve extension that allows you to tune it to G or Gb. For concert bands and orchestra, it's a great horn.

[Bach5G]

Anyone experiment with leadpipes?

[Bach5G]

I have a Benge 290 on trial. First impressions are generally pretty positive. Easy to play and, with a Yeo, honks the pedals.

I was surprised to find springs in the slide, like the Conn 62H I once owned. Is this standard?

[BGuttman]

...
I was surprised to find springs in the slide, like the Conn 62H I once owned. Is this standard?

It was standard on the King 7B and 8B. Not surprised it would be on the Benge.

[Bach5G]

Thanks Bruce.

I don’t think anyone would list their Shires/Edwards/Rath on Craigslist in order to buy a 290. But it seems like a decent enough horn.

[imsevimse]

The Benge trombones never caught on. The 290 is great but there are too many good bass trombones and today I don't think many orchestral players would choose a Benge 290. They didn't choose one when they first came to the market so why would that change?

I think the Benge brand is very underrated. I have five Benge horns (170, 175, 175f, 190C, 290). They are all great horns. Would they be my first choice? No because I prefer a Yamaha 891Z instead of a 170, a Bach 36BO instead of a 175f, a Courtois 420 instead of a 190C, any of my 9.5" basses instead of the 290.

Does this mean the 290 bass and the other Benge horns are bad horns? No, they are great horns.

/Tom

[Basbasun]

Yes they are great horns. We both, 1st and bass bone, used Benge horns in the Swedish Radio Orchestra for a while.
I played 290 that feels like a King with bigger bell and mor easy to hold. I liked it very much for a couple of years, so did the Ist bone player. I Sweden it is still rare to play anything other than Bach ore Conn i orchestra, but Yamaha is making progress.

[chromebone]

Thanks Bruce.

I don’t think anyone would list their Shires/Edwards/Rath on Craigslist in order to buy a 290. But it seems like a decent enough horn.

I did. I sold my Edwards and now play a 190. All of my colleagues, including one that plays in a major symphony, say I sound better on it. People like to hear with their eyes in this business. Maybe I won’t get to be listed on the website as a Benge arteest, but I don’t care.

I’m not saying they will work for everybody, but If it works, that’s all that counts.

[CalgaryTbone]

The Benge tenors were popular for a time. John Marcellus was endorsing them, and most of the Cleveland section were playing them. Dave Finlayson won the NY Phil. 2nd job on one (but switched to Bachs when he got there), and Jim Pugh had something to do with the development of the .500 bore horn, and played it for a while. The basses didn't have the same following, but I have heard some players on a 290 that really sounded good. I think Benge just got lost in the merger between King and Conn, when the company decided to consolidate some of the models that they offered. I've had a few students over the years that had a Benge tenor, and those horns served them well.

Jim Scott

[djkennedy]

Chuck at brasslab made a lead pipe for the 290
Player in the met
I got those. Pipes for two 290s I sold
Jim Pugh played the finish off his freelance
170 I should have bought it when he dumped his
Artist gear when he went Edwards
I bought his flyweight gold plated unsoldered rim
No bumper on slide bow
Lighter than the thin man Fedchock even
Handmade custom
The 165 Benge a fantastic trombone best in its
Price range for them who
Couldn’t afford 42b
—160 175 Some weird triggers
290 here2 170s
Pieces slides of 190s
There. Was a 190 w Thayer fantastic

[djkennedy]

Got a 290
From
Jason Bennett
Fs
100 peace dollars

[Tremozl]

Why do you write in broken sentences?

[imsevimse]

Why do you write in broken sentences?

I choose to look at writing as poetry. Has always been poetry to me. In this case it is minimalistic.

/Tom

[Bach5G]

I’d be interestedly in one of the Met 290 leadpipes but I’d also be worried about destroying the slide tube getting the existing pipe out. They don’t make 290s anymore and a replacement tube might be hard to come by. The horn feels and blows as if it would benefit from a leadpipe change.

[elmsandr]

Remembering back to the early 90's... There was a Benge 290 at a music store that I thought was the most beautiful horn they ever stocked. I played it on my way out of the store at least once a month (I was there every week for lessons). I loved it in the small little practice room they had there, never had a chance to play it anywhere else.

That said, this horn was in a college town with a professor that was a great bass trombonist. This horn sat there for years unsold.

Cheers,
Andy

[Crazy4Tbone86]

Hey Bach 5G,

If you need to replace the inner slide on a Benge 290, it is very easy to get the part. The inner slide is identical to the inner slide for King bass trombones. Benge and King trombones shared many of the same parts.

[BGuttman]

Remembering back to the early 90's... There was a Benge 290 at a music store that I thought was the most beautiful horn they ever stocked. I played it on my way out of the store at least once a month (I was there every week for lessons). I loved it in the small little practice room they had there, never had a chance to play it anywhere else.

That said, this horn was in a college town with a professor that was a great bass trombonist. This horn sat there for years unsold.

Cheers,
Andy

Unfortunately there was a period where people listened with their eyes, and there was a craze among classical players for the "Bach Sound". You couldn't get it with anything else.

Add to that the fact that Benge was deemed "classical Kings" and considered too "flimsy for real players". Note all the quotes around terms. I don't believe this for a minute. But it did affect the recommendations and purchasing directives of a lot of teachers.

[Bach5G]

Also, Thayers appeared in the 80s and Edwards trombones were on the scene by the late 80s/early 90s. I recall a friend buying a Bach with a 10.5” bell. I wonder if King was just a little behind the curve.

[elmsandr]

Unfortunately there was a period where people listened with their eyes, and there was a craze among classical players for the "Bach Sound". You couldn't get it with anything else.

Add to that the fact that Benge was deemed "classical Kings" and considered too "flimsy for real players". Note all the quotes around terms. I don't believe this for a minute. But it did affect the recommendations and purchasing directives of a lot of teachers.

This particular prof was from the Eastman tradition. No loyalty to the Bach Sound or any such directive. Think he was playing on a Holton for a big part of this time. I remember several Bachs, Holtons, Edwards, and a couple of Conns in the studio for the basses. For the tenors, they were all over the map with everything Bachs, Holtons, Conns, and even including a Canadian Brass with a Thayer in the studio. While he may have had a lot of voiced opinions on some bits, he was not a gear evangelist by any means. If anything, he suggested people just find a good horn off the shelf and put it time to play it. If it worked coming out the bell he supported it.

Cheers,
Andy

[Bach5G]

Andy - did you mean Chicago?

[elmsandr]

Andy - did you mean Chicago?

No. Bruce brought up the phrase “Bach Sound” here. I was just noting that a gorgeous new 290 was within walking distance of a good music school that was very tolerant of a wide brand of horns.... and it stayed there for a couple of years. I’d love another crack at that horn now as an adult, but it can’t be a coincidence that it never gained any traction with the studio folks.

Cheers,
Andy