alto mouthpiece suggestions

[momentum]

I've just ordered a used Courtois alto, as I've been asked to play a few new music chamber pieces that require an alto in the fall. Why Courtois? The price was right

I kind of have no idea what mouthpiece to get. Bass is my primary horn, I don't own any small-bore mouthpieces, and I haven't played on anything smaller than a 5G for many years.

I am guessing, as I'm used to playing on somewhat larger equipment, that a larger-than-average alto mouthpiece would be best for me. I also notice, however, that the Courtois has a somewhat smaller bore size than some other altos I spec'd, so I'm not sure if a larger piece would be a bad idea on it.

Would the wise TromboneChat mouthpiece experts have any alto mouthpiece suggestions for me, at least as a starting point so I can have a mouthpiece to try out the horn with when I receive it?

Many thanks!

[Vegasbound]

Talk to Doug Elliott he can put together the ideal fit for you and the horn

[LeTromboniste]

Congrats on the purchase. I had a Courtois alto for a while when I still played enough modern trombone to justify it. One of the best trombones I've ever played.

The answer to your question depends on whether you tend to want the same or similar cup diameter on all horns to minimize the change, or a very different diameter on each horn that helps you change your way of playing and blowing to fit each horn. Both approaches are valid.

[MStarke]

As Maximilien said - there are multiple ways to go here.

I personally feel much better using standard alto sizes - once I kind of understood how it worked, it was much easier to get the sound, range, articulation and endurance.
But that may be different for you of course.

My suggestion would be to start with a typical alto size - for me that would be around the 11c size - give it some days for starting to get a feeling for it and then look further. There are lots of good offers here, e.g. the Yamahas are good quality and not too expensive.

Certainly talking to Doug Elliott or someone else with comparable experience would also help.

[Doug Elliott]

Both approaches are valid, but it really depends on your own chops' tolerance for small rim diameters. Some players have no issues with using a small rim; others (like me) can't do it. You also have to consider how it affects your other normal playing.

I make a wide variety of stuff that works, including the extra-small shank you'll probably need, if you're interested.

[LeTromboniste]

As Maximilien said - there are multiple ways to go here.

I personally feel much better using standard alto sizes - once I kind of understood how it worked, it was much easier to get the sound, range, articulation and endurance.
But that may be different for you of course.

My suggestion would be to start with a typical alto size - for me that would be around the 11c size - give it some days for starting to get a feeling for it and then look further. There are lots of good offers here, e.g. the Yamahas are good quality and not too expensive.

Certainly talking to Doug Elliott or someone else with comparable experience would also help.

If going for the small horn-small mouthpiece approach, I would say 11c is probably closer to the larger end of that spectrum. Anything bigger will be very big (whithin that approach). A very common size is 12c, many also use 15, and a few go to the extreme with 22 and smaller.

[sterb225]

The Courtois 131 alto I played for a year had an especially small mouthpiece receiver that made intonation a little wonky with standard small shank mouthpieces. Definitely reach out to Doug for his solution.

[harrisonreed]

Easiest solution if you are a bass player:

Doug Elliott's XT105 and XT106 rims work very well on alto, and are very close in size to a Bach 2G. You can also get them in narrow width of you are used to bass pieces with very narrow rim profiles. Or you can get something even closer to the bass rim you usually play, but I can't speak for how well something larger than the 106 might work on alto.

The cups to try are the XT-B and XT-C cups. I prefer the B cup.

You want both shanks that go with the cup you choose (each cup takes a certain numbered shank, and there is an alto shank and an alto-s shank for each number). My 36H matches best with the regular alto shank, but I noticed that the shires altos play better with the alto-s shank. Once I realized this, I just bought both types so that I have them when I test out alto trombones. The XT105 B cup combo is always a win on any alto for me, but only after I figure out if the horn takes the regular alto shank or the alto-s.

This shank finickiness is likely due to my habit of configuring altos to be as short as I can possibly make them and playing long on the slide. I cut my 36H tuning slide, so I think that's why the slightly longer shank works better. You can't cut a shires alto, so the shorter shank works better. I don't know lol.

[hyperbolica]

I'm certainly no expert, but when I played alto, a smaller mouthpiece gave a more characteristic sound. I used a Christian Lindberg 15. Anything larger you might as well use a small tenor, soundwise. I'm a fan of Doug's stuff (and big rims) for tenor. You've got some time, you should probably see if you can make a small piece work.

[Basbasun]

As Doug said, some players can use different rims, some can´t. I had a Warburton Alessi 1A mpc with alarge rim and very shallow cup. For some time. Now I don´t touch the alto. Often I hear alto that sound like tenor. I think Doug can give you a piece with a wide rim and right cup depth. Rather then playing a regular tenor mpc. It can work.

[harrisonreed]

I'll do a demo with mine when I get a chance

[MStarke]

I'll do a demo with mine when I get a chance

Would be interesting to see the difference with the two shanks.
For me it seems to generally work better on altos (or at least those alto I have played) if mouthpieces go further in.

[MStarke]

As Maximilien said - there are multiple ways to go here.

I personally feel much better using standard alto sizes - once I kind of understood how it worked, it was much easier to get the sound, range, articulation and endurance.
But that may be different for you of course.

My suggestion would be to start with a typical alto size - for me that would be around the 11c size - give it some days for starting to get a feeling for it and then look further. There are lots of good offers here, e.g. the Yamahas are good quality and not too expensive.

Certainly talking to Doug Elliott or someone else with comparable experience would also help.

If going for the small horn-small mouthpiece approach, I would say 11c is probably closer to the larger end of that spectrum. Anything bigger will be very big (whithin that approach). A very common size is 12c, many also use 15, and a few go to the extreme with 22 and smaller.

Yes, I guess you are right, in that category ("typical alto mouthpieces"), an 11c might be on the larger half.
For me 12c-style mouthpieces have not really worked until now, but it didn't feel like the rim size was the problem, must be something in the cup shape/bore/backbore.

[tbonesullivan]

Does it come with a mouthpiece? I don't know much about Courtois Altos, but they often come with a mouthpiece specifically designed for an alto trombone. The yamaha alto comes with the 48A, which is a 6 1/2 size rim with a cup/backbore designed for alto.

Looking at the Courtois website, they have specific "alto trombone" mouthpieces. If you're getting this horn new, it probably will come with one.

[CalgaryTbone]

I'm certainly no expert, but when I played alto, a smaller mouthpiece gave a more characteristic sound. I used a Christian Lindberg 15. Anything larger you might as well use a small tenor, soundwise. I'm a fan of Doug's stuff (and big rims) for tenor. You've got some time, you should probably see if you can make a small piece work.

If you check out the specs. online, you'll discover that the CL 15 actually has a pretty big rim size - I don't have the numbers in front of me (Hickeys has a comparative chart). Christian's numbering system has nothing to do with traditional Bach numbers.

Some players can get the best results by scaling down the size of the entire mouthpiece including the rim for playing the alto (and small-bore tenor as well). Others, like me, struggle with a small rim size. Pretty much everyone benefits from having the cup/backbore be small to be appropriate to the alto.

Some players have more than one mouthpiece for the alto - different set-ups for larger sized pieces like Brahms symphonies and the Schubert C major, and a smaller set-up for Mozart choral works, etc.

Try out some of the suggestions that have been made so far - if a small rim size is a problem, then there are lots of great options like Doug Elliott, Greg Black, Griego, etc. that make mouthpieces with larger rims that are mated to smaller cups. The one thing that I would suggest against is using something like a small shank 5G in the alto - the cup is way too deep and pitch will go crazy. Good luck.

Jim Scott

[heinzgries]

Courtois offers three alto mouthpiece on their website without any spec.
ACMTA9 | TA9 Alto Trombone mouthpiece
ACMTA10 | TA10 Alto Trombone mouthpiece
ACMTA11 | TA11 Alto Trombone mouthpiece

[johntarr]

I can only echo the posts recommending Doug Elliot’s mouthpieces. I’m really enjoying the set up he helped me with for alto, tenor and bass instruments. Being able to find the best shank seems to make quite a difference, that was my experience.

[MrHCinDE]

The yamaha alto comes with the 48A, which is a 6 1/2 size rim with a cup/backbore designed for alto.

Interesting, I didn’t realise that mouthpiece is designed with alto in mind. Guess I should have as it came with my instrument.

I play mainly tenor and bass and rarely play anything with a rim smaller than a 5G, even on the small bore tenor. For alto, I always use a Yamaha 48A and for my tastes and chops it works well. As always it’s a question for the individual but I find the transition to the 48A very comfortable.

[ssking2b]

I am having great success on alto with a Marcinkiewicz ET7

[heinzgries]

I am having great success on alto with a Marcinkiewicz ET7

for my taste the Marcinkiewicz ET7 is a bit to small and to shallow. From the Marcinkiewicz line i prefer the
J. Wigham ET 1.7

[ssking2b]

I have both Marc mouhtpieces, but on my alto the ET7 just worked better.

[Tbone00]

I love bach 7c

[MikeS]

I went for a long time playing a very small mouthpiece on alto, a Laskey 42C. I found that using 5-ish sized rim with an Elliott C+ cup and D alto backbore makes me want to pick up the alto more often. It’s a more natural transition from what I play on tenor and euph. I also have a really small mouthpiece, a Cather 22mm, for when I want the alto to have a voice that is nothing like a small tenor. If I haven’t used it for a while, though, it takes a lot of time to remember how to make it work.

[tombone21]

I've had a Courtois alto for the last 4 years and I've found it to be very flexible with mouthpieces. I borrowed a Greg Black 4 rim/super shallow Thein underpart for a couple years while I got accustomed to alto but eventually moved to a Willie's Walküre HY7s J1, essentially a Bach 6 3/4C though I think this particular mouthpiece is made for bass trumpet (makes sense considering the bore size of the 'tois). For me, anything smaller than a 7-sized rim made the horn harder to play. Big fan of the Bach 6 3/4C though. I also remember having a normal Bach 7 that worked well with it.