New trombone

[archibek]

Hello everyone !
Need your help
I play 48H Conn , but trombone in very bad condition ..
Looking for a new one , but not really familiar with the new companies .
I thought about Rath , but maybe there's another good makers ?
I play jazz solos , funk and leed in bands , so I need instrument with nice full sound , but can be crisp and cut through when need it .
Any suggestions in makers and model ?
Thanks a lot

[BGuttman]

Lots of choices -- it just depends on what's available near you.

Bach 16M or 12 (you may not like it if you are used to Conn)
Benge 170
Conn 100H, 6H, 10H
Holton 65, 69
Jupiter XO 1632 or 1634
King 3B, 2B Plus
Martin Urbie
Yamaha 691 or Xeno 891

Boutique makers:
Edwards T302
Rath R1, R2, R10
Shires MD

There are others: Courtois, Getzen, Thein, Schlagerl but I don't know the model numbers.

[johntarr]

Lots of choices -- it just depends on what's available near you.

Bach 16M or 12 (you may not like it if you are used to Conn)
Benge 170
Conn 100H, 6H, 10H
Holton 65, 69
Jupiter XO 1632 or 1634
King 3B, 2B Plus
Martin Urbie
Yamaha 691 or Xeno 891

Boutique makers:
Edwards T302
Rath R1, R2, R10
Shires MD

There are others: Courtois, Getzen, Thein, Schlagerl but I don't know the model numbers.

Also Lawler, which are very fine and versatile instruments, in my humble opinion.

[Posaunus]

archibek,

Welcome to TromboneChat.

Where are you located?

What is your budget?

You've been given lots of good suggestions, but as Bruce said, it depends on what's available in your area.

Your best value would be a used "professional" trombone (any of those listed, and more), rather than a new instrument.

If you can, try before you buy. Good luck!

[archibek]

Thanks !
Budget 3k
Location Israel , nothing to try , only to take a risk and buy from internet ...

[BGuttman]

You might want to post a WTB (Want to Buy) on the Instruments Classifieds. There are some here who could probably help you that frequent that board.

[archibek]

Good idea , thanks , i will , but first of all want to ask people that not selling .. )))

[Geordie]

I’ve happily used an Olds Recording and an Olds Special in similar situations eg soul, funk and rock. Having said that I’m currently starting up with a King 3B, which lighter and feels like an easier. blow to me. Early days.
Be aware that Olds can be nose heavy if there is no counterweight.

[MrHCinDE]

Do you like the way your 48h plays? What sort of damage does it have?

If you like the horn you could maybe get it fixed up or even fully restored with new lacquer and if necessary new inner/outer slide tubes etc.?

I ended up getting a replacement bell fitted to a 3B/F which had a cracked bell and turned two unplayable parts into a great playing small bore horn, in that case the repair was totally worth it.

If either the bell section or slide section is in good condition or could be easily fixed, sourcing a slide/bell only should be possible with some patience. Another option would be getting a nice 6h, for your budget take your pick of vintage. Other than early friction fit models a 6h should have a slide which is interchangeable with your 48h.

If you were buying new, many places should have a returns policy. Some even do for used horns.

I’d be surprised if you couldn’t track down a 3B to try somewhere locally and they are well worth a go. A friend of mine has a relatively new one and that thing pumps out so much sound, must be a hard job for a salesman to persuade anyone to buy a new 3B silversonic when the brass one is so good already!

[nds]

Archibek, The Brass Exchange has been mentioned elsewhere, I’ve also had good experiences buying quality used instruments there, and from the classifieds here.

Off topic but wondering if you have recommendations for trombone/brass/jazz music from Israel to listen to?

[OneTon]

Archibek,

The horns I don’t see mentioned here are Yamaha YSL-697Z and YSL-897Z, which at 0.484-0.490 bore. I play a YSL-697Z for lead in a big band. I have a Bach LT6 that I like as well. The Bach LT6 might be a bit more versatile.

I have a YSL-653 0.500 bore and 0.500 bore Shires available for combo.

If I were only going to have one horn I would prefer the YSL-697Z. To me the YSL-653 is a “left-handed” horn to play. It will do the job and won’t hold me back.

I played a Schmelzer 1 which is 0.500 bore at an ITA Festival. It was a good horn.

I have lived overseas and appreciate your circumstance.

Shalom,
Richard Smith

[archibek]

Archibek, The Brass Exchange has been mentioned elsewhere, I’ve also had good experiences buying quality used instruments there, and from the classifieds here.

Off topic but wondering if you have recommendations for trombone/brass/jazz music from Israel to listen to?

Just to mention a few ))

[nds]

Archibek, The Brass Exchange has been mentioned elsewhere, I’ve also had good experiences buying quality used instruments there, and from the classifieds here.

Off topic but wondering if you have recommendations for trombone/brass/jazz music from Israel to listen to?

Just to mention a few ))

Thank you!

[PaulT]

Budget is 3K. You are in Israel. And you are (rightly IMO) concerned about the possible issues that could arise with internet/ebay sales.

My advice, buy a new Yamaha 891Z (.508 bore, great horn) or new Jupiter 1634 (.508 bore, great horn). The 891Z is commonly available for $2,500 U.S.) and the 1634 is available for $2,600 (U.S).

Buying new means no concerns about hidden issues that only become apparent after return windows are past, buying new means no arguments with a seller over what "the slide is 8/10" means, buying new means the horn has no wear and tear and will serve you well for your entire life, should you wish it to.

Buying used, when "used" means the horn is coming overseas from Europe or the U.S., means hefty shipping charges and potentially huge issues if the horn is damaged in transit, buying used means long distant negotiations and possible disputes if the horn doesn't meet your expectations, buying used from overseas means hefty return shipping charges if the horn isn't what you thought you were buying. And not only will shipping be expensive, it will be slow... maybe slow, slow, slow, slow. And slow shipping will exacerbate any shipping or return disputes, disputes that could stretch possibly into months. Shipping issues will be a fight you can't win.

Buying a new horn from a dealer removes shipping costs and risks. If you do mail order from a reputable dealer, shipping costs and risks are reduced greatly. And if you mail order through a local dealer, the dealer assumes all the risks.



The 891z is a quality pro horn used by pros. The 1634 is a quality pro horn used by pros. I have a Yamaha 891Z. It is a lovely horn that will do anything you want it to. While I don't have a Jupiter 1634, I do have its .500 bore sibling, the 1632, and it is a lovely horn and a blast to play ("blast" means "really, really, fun"). I go back and forth between the two, but do find the Yamaha 891Z serves me better in the bands I am in (regular city bands, wide mix of music).

If you aren't mic'd, I do recommend going with one of the .508 bores. The Jupiter will be a lighter horn and (extrapolating from my 1632) a "hotter" brighter horn. The Yamaha will light up just fine, but may be a tad mellower and more flexible in tone. You can't go wrong with either. Both are built as well as it is possible to build a horn, the quality of both is A+++.

Anyway, consider buying a new horn, preferably through a local dealer, but, regardless, new through a good dealer. There are potential hassles and issues involved with buying a used horn from someone in the U.S or Europe when you are far across the sea in Israel, even if intent is good on both sides. Shipping Sh*t happens. I wouldn't mess with it.

[PaulT]

Here is a review of the Jupiter 1634 from my favorite dealer dude:

[PaulT]

Here is a review of the Yamaha 891Z:

[OneTon]

Schmitt, Dawkes, and Brass Exchange have Youtube clips. The sound quality can be good enough to get an idea of what they sound like. Brass Exchange and Schmitt have 48H videos for comparison.

As much as I like the YSL-697Z, the light weight yellow brass slide has spent at least 4 or 5 times the visits to a repair shop as my light weight nickel slides. I hate to quote strengths without the proper specification to reference to. Adding nickel stiffens the metal and lessens the tendency for red rot in my experience. Yellow brass is warmer sounding. Again my experience is that players quickly compensate for lightweight nickel slides. However, some people do not like them.

The YSL-697Z never experienced any trauma. The only repairs to the lt nickel slides were all trauma induced, once in a lifetime events. I will be playing a gig Sunday and the 697 will still be in the shop. We would label planes like that “hanger queens” in the Air Force.

The Jupiter trombones with lightweight nickel slides may merit consideration. Their reputation is good.

Lawler trombones offer lightweight slides and screw bells for easier transport. Schmitt has a Youtube video.

[HermanGerman]

Having played very (too) many trombones of all brands and bores in the last 40 years I am now very happy with my XO 1634...I sold all my horns from .485 to .525 because of the big sound, versatility and ease of playing it delivers.
The 48 has a big sound but it is kind of bulky...I always liked the 6H more.