Shires Bell & Tuning Slide Fitment

[jchebert1]

Has anyone else noticed that when trying different Shires parts, they all seem to fit with different levels of ease/difficulty? I've bought a few bells lately, and my most recent one is a SUPER tight fit with my tuning slide. This seems to be true with all the tuning slides I've tried with that particular bell.

Any thoughts on tight-fitting bells/tuning slides/valves from Shires? Before it gets suggested, I have played with loosening the bell from the valves to get more play. Still very, very tight...

[walldaja]

From a manufacturing standpoint I find it highly unlikely that bits and pieces made by different hands at different times will fit seamlessly without fine adjustment. Even my F tuning slide can get misaligned and jammed if I'm not very careful adjusting it. This is especially true when using custom pieces on a Q. Without the involvement of an artist manufacturing standards / capabilities hinder the ability for truly universal fit, especially pieces with little "wiggle" room.

I would enjoy being proven wrong.

While an interesting concept it was not why I bought my Shires.

[Burgerbob]

A few years ago, maybe 2016, I went to hornguys to swap bits in and out with my bass, which was mostly late '00s parts. There were a couple things that just didn't fit at all, and a couple that were very tense.

There's no getting away from this, I think, and I wouldn't blame Shires too much.

[jchebert1]

From a manufacturing standpoint I find it highly unlikely that bits and pieces made by different hands at different times will fit seamlessly without fine adjustment. Even my F tuning slide can get misaligned and jammed if I'm not very careful adjusting it. This is especially true when using custom pieces on a Q. Without the involvement of an artist manufacturing standards / capabilities hinder the ability for truly universal fit, especially pieces with little "wiggle" room.

I would enjoy being proven wrong.

While an interesting concept it was not why I bought my Shires.

Gotcha, well good to know I'm not the only one! My daily horn's parts all fit like a glove, but have been buying more "toys" to try.

A few years ago, maybe 2016, I went to hornguys to swap bits in and out with my bass, which was mostly late '00s parts. There were a couple things that just didn't fit at all, and a couple that were very tense.

There's no getting away from this, I think, and I wouldn't blame Shires too much.

I see. Such is with hand-made craft products, and I've personally been very happy with Shires! Would you recommend just living with it, or do you think that I could take it to a tech?

[Burgerbob]

I see. Such is with hand-made craft products, and I've personally been very happy with Shires! Would you recommend just living with it, or do you think that I could take it to a tech?

If you find parts you like, I'd definitely have them fitted to your setup with no tension.

[Matt K]

Matt recently commented about how at M&W they don't try to make interchangeable parts because they want to optimize for each horn, so anything they make is assembled specifically for that instrument. They do that because you can get pretty close to spec, but to really optimize, the tolerances have to be pretty tight. If you want to eek out ath last little bit of performance out of a horn, its definitely best to take it to a tech and have them heat it up a little bit and get everything in perfect alignment. Especially over 20-30 years, you are likely to encounter parts that have moved a little bit and it isn't unusual for them to not fit perfectly together without such intervention. Fortunately, its a pretty easy fix.

[ZacharyThornton]

^ Yup.

[GabrielRice]

Do you mean that actual leg of the tuning slide into the receiver on the bell? Is it tight whether or not the bell is attached to the valve section?

If so, the bell top (that's what they call the tuning slide receiver at the factory) needs to be opened up a bit. This would be done at the factory by lapping the intended tuning slide to it, but you will make your tuning slide a looser fit to your other bells by doing that, so you might need to do something different in this case.

If it's fine without the bell attached to the valve but difficult to move when it is attached, then it's a matter of adjusting the fitting by heating up the solder.

[Crazy4Tbone86]

Do you mean that actual leg of the tuning slide into the receiver on the bell? Is it tight whether or not the bell is attached to the valve section?

If so, the bell top (that's what they call the tuning slide receiver at the factory) needs to be opened up a bit. This would be done at the factory by lapping the intended tuning slide to it, but you will make your tuning slide a looser fit to your other bells by doing that, so you might need to do something different in this case.

If it's fine without the bell attached to the valve but difficult to move when it is attached, then it's a matter of adjusting the fitting by heating up the solder.

Technically, you could lap the tuning slide receiver on a hardened steel mandrel instead of the tuning slide leg. That would preserve the proper fit of the tuning slide in the other components and only change the dimensions of the part that the OP was concerned about.

[GabrielRice]

Technically, you could lap the tuning slide receiver on a hardened steel mandrel instead of the tuning slide leg. That would preserve the proper fit of the tuning slide in the other components and only change the dimensions of the part that the OP was concerned about.

Of course...but you would need to have such a mandrel to do it.

[Crazy4Tbone86]

Technically, you could lap the tuning slide receiver on a hardened steel mandrel instead of the tuning slide leg. That would preserve the proper fit of the tuning slide in the other components and only change the dimensions of the part that the OP was concerned about.

Of course...but you would need to have such a mandrel to do it.

Good point Gabe. However, a straight mandrel of the exact size is not really necessary. I have used straight mandrels of a smaller size and worked it slowly with lapping compound, being very careful to keep the inside of the tuning slide receiver absolutely flat on the mandrel. It takes a little time and patience.

Another trick is to use an expanding tool, but NOT to actually "expand" the tubing. If you expand the tool so that it has firm contact with the inside of the tuning slide receiver, lapping compound can be used. This method is not as reliable because the expanding tool has a small "high spot" area. Thus, the lapping process must be carefully done to ensure that the friction (lapping area) is equally distributed over ALL of the inside surface areas.

A third technique would be to use emery cloth/sand paper to remove a small amount of metal on the inside of the tuning slide receiver. I don't recommend that people do this at home because it, again, takes some patience and calculation. The tech must start with something that is more abrasive and graduate the abrasiveness to something that is probably 1000 grit or higher. On the large side of a bass trombone or large-bore tenor, this can usually be done with a person's finger. Again.....leave this for a tech. It could be very easy to remove too much metal and then you have bigger problems.

When I read the OP description, I am not convinced that the two parts are a misfit. As some others have noted, it sounds like this could be fixed by a tech if some of the parts were soldered to the proper alignment.