Fault My Plan

[Clef]

I've hit my limit on encountering low Ebs that I can't fake anymore with my absent F attachment. Time to find a new tenor horn with a trigger.

Time is a little bit of an issue because I have an opportunity with a symphonic group I'm subbing in that I would like to continue with.

So far my immediate choices are:

Craigslist: 1976 King 3Bf, one owner, appears in nice condition. $1,300.

Local Shop: Used Conn 52HL, $1,500.

Another Local Shop: 1981-1982 (corrected from original post which said 1925) King 3B+ silver, photo looks nice, FWIW, $2,200

Mighty Quinn Brass and Winds (mail order only): A number of open box new Kings, Conns, and Bach Stradivarius. Example, Conn 88HO for $2,200.

The local shops have a few options for me to try.

I was going to go to the shop with the 52HL and play that along with some others, followed by playing the 1976 King 3Bf. The 1925-1930 would be cool, but I am wary of the age and function of the trigger. I play a 3B already and would probably be fine with the 1976 one, which is my cheapest option, but part of me wants to invest in a newer trombone that would give me more of a different experience.

I know these kinds of posts are difficult to respond to because it's such a subjective choice for an individual to make, but I welcome your thoughts. For me, part of the exercise is just laying this all out in a post.

[ithinknot]

It's not from the 1920s. The 3B was introduced in the mid 50s, and the 3B+ in the early 80s. Price is high, but 3B+ with F attachment aren't super common.

52HL price is no bargain.

For $1250 there's a world of Bach 36B/42B and Conn 88H for you to try, not to mention other pro models from King/Benge/Holton/Yamaha. At that price point, condition matters as much as brand.

If you haven't played large bore before, and are wanting to immediately use the horn with your current group, the 3BF will be great.

[Clef]

Good catch "ithinknot", you've lived up to your name. Turns out they have a typo on their website. It's a 1981-1982. Now I'm intrigued and will have to try it out. What's the story with silver though? I've read a little and only seen that it's mostly an aesthetic, but also that you will get a warmer tone from brass.

[Posaunus]

What's the story with silver though? I've read a little and only seen that it's mostly an aesthetic, but also that you will get a warmer tone from brass.

King SilverSonic is more than aesthetic. The sound of a 3BF+SS should be wonderful, full, and warm.
These are pretty rare (and valuable) beasts. Brass bells I would expect to be brighter than silver.

Since you are accustomed to Kings, see if you can test-play the 3BF+SS. You may want to try a slightly larger mouthpiece than you play with your current 3B. Otherwise it should feel pretty familiar and comfortable.

Quinn's open-box trombones are usually good value, and he stands behind what he sells.
Delivery should be pretty quick.

Good luck!

[ithinknot]

What's the story with silver though? I've read a little and only seen that it's mostly an aesthetic, but also that you will get a warmer tone from brass.

Depends if it's a normal yellow brass horn that happens to be silver-plated (whole bell section is the same silver color), or a Silver Sonic (bell labelled as such and made of solid sterling silver, gold-washed inside, rest of bell section looks nickel silver and brass-colored with the usual lacquer). If it is a 3BF+SS in nice condition, that's a very reasonable price, and you wouldn't have much trouble getting it back in future.

[Clef]

Ah, ok. No this is not a Silver Sonic. So it's a silver-plated horn.

[Clef]

Update is I played the King 3B+f, a new Bach 42AF with Infinity valve, a Yamaha Xeno YSL 882, Yamaha Allegro (548GOAL maybe?), a used Allegro, a new Conn 88HO, and the '76 King 3Bf.

Reactions:

'81/82 King 3B+f - Nice condition, felt very familiar as I have a similar era 3B. The slide was noisy, added some oil which took some of that out but all.

Bach 42AF - fortunately, I didn't like this one as it had the highest price tag of any at $4,860. Slide was surprisingly rough and I oiled it up. Even so, was not won over by it. Didn't care for the wooden paddle, although the horn is well balanced.

The Yamaha's were ok. The used Allegro had a noisy/clanky valve.

The '76 King 3Bf - again, seemed like home since I have the 3B which is why I'm leaning against it because I'd like the f attachment and something that is different than what I have. Nice older gentleman.

Conn 88HO - I must say this one kind of came out on top at the end of the day. The tones I was getting at the low end were wonderful. And the warmth of tone I was getting was more of what I was looking for.

So I came away wondering if I should just order the open box 88HO that Quinn has for only $2,200 which is substantially less than my local one. But then this morning I was reading some threads here that gave me pause, with some people saying the new Conn's aren't necessarily built well, or lack proper QA/QC and one commenter hinted that maybe Quinn has all these open box Conn's for a reason (I think the implication that they were returns from unhappy customers). Are these just crankypants comments?

I can actually drive to Quinn's, but it's a 3hr drive, so it's a bit of a haul, which I guess is what I should do. Crap. Now that I look at his site again, there are a lot of horns there.

[ithinknot]

Worth the trip - saves you the trouble of return shipping if you didn't like what you got, plus you get to try other toys. Had a quick look... of the used stuff the 79H, 36B and TR150 would all be worth trying. With the new-ish Conns, try the 88H and HNV if they're in stock - the open wrap on the HO sticks out ridiculously far and is a bit of a dent magnet.

[Posaunus]

So I came away wondering if I should just order the open box 88HO that Quinn has for only $2,200 which is substantially less than my local one. But then this morning I was reading some threads here that gave me pause, with some people saying the new Conn's aren't necessarily built well, or lack proper QA/QC and one commenter hinted that maybe Quinn has all these open box Conn's for a reason (I think the implication that they were returns from unhappy customers). Are these just crankypants comments?

I think mostly "crankypants comments." Matt (Quinn) is a trombonist himself, and runs an ethical business. He stands behind what he sells (which is mostly good to start with) and has a staff of repair technicians. They apparently check over anything he sells before it leaves the store.

Quinn seems to have lots of inventory for sale now. Personally, I love my vintage Conn 88H, but it has the classic closed wrap. As does ithinknot, I would worry about the length of the 88HO's F-attachment tubing, and imagine it would be easy to inadvertently bump something behind me and dent the tubing.

[Clef]

Thanks notthinker and Posaunus (das hilft mich). I hadn't seen/didn't think of looking at Holton. Road trip!

[bitbckt]

I’ve never found the open wrap on my 88HO to present a problem, even in pit playing. I bought it new sometime in the 90s, and the tuning slide is still like-new.

I would definitely drive to try out the HNV, if possible.