Olds moutpiece

[Coprion]

Hi everyone.I purchased an olds o20 trombone but only with the slide.It sounds very good but I had to reduce the thickness of the shank to enter more because with i normal mothpiece
the trombone has a low pitch. Is there another way to solve this problem? Cut the bell tubes? Thanks to eweryone

[Doug Elliott]

Olds used a smaller size shank on a lot of instruments.
Is that O-20 a valve trombone? But it has a slide? Maybe the slide is from a different model?

[JohnL]

Olds used a smaller size shank on a lot of instruments.
Is that O-20 a valve trombone? But it has a slide? Maybe the slide is from a different model?

Sounds like the OP has an O-20 bell and a slide. Could be the slide originally offered as an option with the O-20, could be from a different model. At any rate, it's a pretty safe bet that it's either .485"/.500" or .495"/.510" bore.

[Coprion]

I believe it is 485"/.500. I do not have the valve but only the slide
which seems the same to me as the custom p16. The serial number of the slide is different to serial number of the bell

[KingThings]

I played on a 1947 Olds Super dual bore with the original Olds 3 mouthpiece. The instrument was flat even with the tuning slide all the way in. And the higher notes were sharp. I could use alternate slide positions to fix the top easily, but the lower end was too low....my tech could have shortened the tuning slide to raise the pitch but then the upper notes would be even sharper.

A=440 was not standard until the 1950s so that probably explains the instrument being a bit low.

[Posaunus]

I played on a 1947 Olds Super dual bore with the original Olds 3 mouthpiece. The instrument was flat even with the tuning slide all the way in. And the higher notes were sharp. I could use alternate slide positions to fix the top easily, but the lower end was too low....my tech could have shortened the tuning slide to raise the pitch but then the upper notes would be even sharper.

A=440 was not standard until the 1950s so that probably explains the instrument being a bit low.

Your Olds Super was intended to be in tune at A=440. This was the standard pitch well before the 1950s.
I use a Doug Elliott Olds Shank on my small-bore Olds - works great.

[Doug Elliott]

The combination of flat low range and sharp high range (or the opposite) is more likely a chop issue of playing mechanics, not the horn or mouthpiece. Olds horns and mouthpieces were not badly designed like that.

[KingThings]

I played on a 1947 Olds Super dual bore with the original Olds 3 mouthpiece. The instrument was flat even with the tuning slide all the way in. And the higher notes were sharp. I could use alternate slide positions to fix the top easily, but the lower end was too low....my tech could have shortened the tuning slide to raise the pitch but then the upper notes would be even sharper.

A=440 was not standard until the 1950s so that probably explains the instrument being a bit low.

Your Olds Super was intended to be in tune at A=440. This was the standard pitch well before the 1950s.
I use a Doug Elliott Olds Shank on my small-bore Olds - works great.

A=440 was not adopted until 1955 (and still is not standard everywhere. In Austria we still tune 444). The Conn Super I am referring to is like a museum piece.....never played much and like new, all original, and with the slide all the way in and the original mouthpiece, and its still about 20 cents flat up to middle C and the notes above that then go to pitch and then quite sharp in the upper range. It is a lovely horn visually and has a nice tone, but I would not be able to use it professionally. The slide design is an interesting idea.....and the tone ring looks nice.

[KingThings]

The combination of flat low range and sharp high range (or the opposite) is more likely a chop issue of playing mechanics, not the horn or mouthpiece. Olds horns and mouthpieces were not badly designed like that.

I have a bunch of trombones and have never encountered this issue with any of them. (Ok maybe a couple of overtones might be a bit sharp as physics is at play, but lipping any such note in tune is easy, or alternate position).

Beats me (and my tech) why the horn is like that. I am aware that Olds usually makes great horns.

[Coprion]

Olds used a smaller size shank on a lot of instruments.
Is that O-20 a valve trombone? But it has a slide? Maybe the slide is from a different model?

Sounds like the OP has an O-20 bell and a slide. Could be the slide originally offered as an option with the O-20, could be from a different model. At any rate, it's a pretty safe bet that it's either .485"/.500" or .495"/.510" bore.

Hi. I sent you an email with the photos of the trombone to your address but you did not reply.

[sungfw]

A=440 was not adopted until 1955

!975, actually, The ISO merely formally recommended adoption of A4=440 Hz—which simply reflected its de factor earlier adoption in the USA and much of Europe—in 1955.

[KingThings]

A=440 was not adopted until 1955

!975, actually, The ISO merely formally recommended adoption of A4=440 Hz—which simply reflected its de factor earlier adoption in the USA and much of Europe—in 1955.

Yes, you are correct. It was more or less chosen as an agreed standard by the 1930s when radio beacons started using the pitch to help musicians tune. And of course, not all countries or nor musicians follow the standard. In Austria it remains 444.

[Posaunus]

!975, actually, The ISO merely formally recommended adoption of A4=440 Hz—which simply reflected its de factor earlier adoption in the USA and much of Europe—in 1955.

... not all countries or nor musicians follow the standard. In Austria it remains 444.

I'm glad I don't play in Austria.
At least two of my trombones cannot be tuned higher than A=441 Hz.

[Posaunus]

The female vocalist for one of my big bands read somewhere that tuning once was A=432 Hz, and tried to get the band to tune to that. My timing slide was at the end of its travel that night, and we sounded terrible with our instruments factory-built for A=440. I led the protest, and we quickly retuned to 440.

[KingThings]

The female vocalist for one of my big bands read somewhere that tuning once was A=432 Hz, and tried to get the band to tune to that. My timing slide was at the end of its travel that night, and we sounded terrible with our instruments factory-built for A=440. I led the protest, and we quickly retuned to 440.

Yes, baroque tuning can be a challenge. On two occasions I had to tuning a harpsichord from A=440 down to A=415 for concerts at the insistence of the conductor (despite trying to explain that such a sudden change would not work). Of course they went out of tune by intermission and, worse, broke strings when retuned to 440. Quick retuning at intermission and later replacing strings made things ok-ish.

Some orchestras in the latter 1800s (Sullivan) tuned higher than modern pitch to the point of singers rebelling as the tessitura was simply too high. The orchestras were faced at that time with variations in pitch from one area to another....I can't imagine how they managed.

Anyway, my King Symphony 1480 trombone can tune from A=444 down to A=430, but obviously was made for 440. In Austria, the pitch starts at 444 but can go a bit sharp as the night goes on......