Where do yall buy parts?

[bcavett]

The stop arm on my son's rotor valve broke. I can't seem to find an exact replacement with Google. Is there some kind of hidden trombone parts store thats got evergtging that anybody knows about?

[harrisonreed]

Each major manufacturer, like Conn/King/Bach/Yamaha has a vendor access site where you can search for parts. For Conn, for example, you put in the model of instrument, and then you get a list of parts. The 88H search gives you literally every single possible piece of the horn in a list, including the HK and Sterling bells (at exorbitant prices)

For a lot of these systems you need to be a registered vendor to order parts.

Hickeys offers some repair parts. So does Osmun.

Your best bet is to order it through your tech or just have the tech do the repair.

[BGuttman]

One other name to add to Harrison's list is Votaw Tool Company. They often have some repair parts, but you may need to be able to specify a more generic part. Instead of "Stop Arm Screw for Conn 88H" you would need to know that it's an M3.5x25mm (I don't know if that's the exact spec). Again, any halfway decent tech will know where to buy the part and install it.

[hornbuilder]

What brand is the instrument??

[ghmerrill]

One other name to add to Harrison's list is Votaw Tool Company.

In my experience, Votaw can be quite helpful on the phone. It's often worth a try. But I'm thinking that "stop arm" sounds like something you could only get via the manufacturer. I'm also curious how you break a "stop arm."

[elmsandr]

One other name to add to Harrison's list is Votaw Tool Company.

In my experience, Votaw can be quite helpful on the phone. It's often worth a try. But I'm thinking that "stop arm" sounds like something you could only get via the manufacturer. I'm also curious how you break a "stop arm."

To add another level, you are not likely to google a part. You’re probably going to have to call and talk to a person, either a repair tech or an outlet of some kind.

One exception is eBay and Texas horn trader listing broken horns they have parted out. They will have pieces. Only place more expensive is a new one at list price.

Cheers,
Andy

[ghmerrill]

I'm shocked to discover that if you Google "trombone rotary valve stop arm", you actually get some hits (e.g., for Yamaha). Still curious how you break one.

[BGuttman]

I'm shocked to discover that if you Google "trombone rotary valve stop arm", you actually get some hits (e.g., for Yamaha). Still curious how you break one.

A stop arm is two soldered parts. If the joint breaks apart ...

I should mention that of all the rotary valve instruments I've owned (and there are more than 10), I have NEVER broken a stop arm.

[JohnL]

It would help to know what make and model of trombone is involved. Heck, someone might just have one laying around.

Is it the Accent TB783LF listed in your profile, or something else?

[hornbuilder]

Some stop arms are cast from a relatively soft "white metal", which are then plated. They can be somewhat "delicate", and most certainly cannot be soldered!!

Knowing the brand of the instrument would make answering the question considerably easier!

[ghmerrill]

A stop arm is two soldered parts. If the joint breaks apart ...

I guess I should have realized that that joint (pin to stop arm body) is a soldered one -- and the connecting screw doesn't descend into the pin. But I'd think that they'd use something other than soft solder for it.

Some years ago a well-known tuba repair guy told me that with the advent of machine electro-soldering (rather than hand-soldering), he was seeing a lot of broken solder joints (often the anchor joints for braces) coming loose after a relatively short time -- and sloppy solder joints on a wide variety of instruments (from economy to expensive). And I've since seen similar complaints from a couple of vendors.

I had a tuba that suffered from this in a couple of instances. One of them drove me nuts for a while when, suddenly on one pitch, I'd get this hideous buzzing sound. It took some effort with the "laying on of hands" to discover it was a sloppily soldered brace base (with solder filling a gap it shouldn't have, and it broke at that point after a few months of use). Only a few moments to fix, but . If you take a magnifier and look at the threading and solder joints on Chinese instruments (at least those produced a decade or more ago), you'll see characteristic sloppiness of this sort -- but I was told that American- and German-made instruments were displaying some of that as well in terms of the soldering. I believe things have gotten significantly better in recent years. Even my Schiller bass trombone (now close to ten years old) doesn't exhibit that problem.

[elmsandr]

How many are soldered? Most I see are Brazed which is a significantly stronger joint.

I’ve never seen one that is just soft soldered (beyond a BS mockup that I made to test something).
Andy

[ghmerrill]

How many are soldered? Most I see are Brazed which is a significantly stronger joint.

That would make more sense. The stress on them is transverse.

[brassmedic]

How many are soldered? Most I see are Brazed which is a significantly stronger joint.

I’ve never seen one that is just soft soldered (beyond a BS mockup that I made to test something).
Andy

They are soldered with high temperature silver solder, which technically is different than braze. I was assuming that's what Bruce was referring to.

[Crazy4Tbone86]

I have seen stop arms break apart…..mostly on the older Jupiter models. Those were clearly made of pot metal. I think that is the same thing Matt called “white metal.” The newer Jupiter components seem to be better.

Sadly, I was working on a few Conn 6D horns about a week ago. These horns were less than a year old and the alloy used on the stop arms was VERY soft. I had to treat those rotor parts with a delicate touch…..that’s not normal for Conn.

[ghmerrill]

They are soldered with high temperature silver solder,

That makes more sense. I was wondering how you'd actually braze a joint like that.

[Bonearzt]

I'm shocked to discover that if you Google "trombone rotary valve stop arm", you actually get some hits (e.g., for Yamaha). Still curious how you break one.

Some older horns, like Blessing, had nylon or plastic stop arms.

But as mentioned, some stop arms are made of pot metal, like pewter, which can break pretty easily.

[Bonearzt]

They are soldered with high temperature silver solder,

That makes more sense. I was wondering how you'd actually braze a joint like that.

VEEEERY carefully!!!!

And IMHO, high temp silver soldering is brazing.

[ghmerrill]

And IMHO, high temp silver soldering is brazing.

Yeah, technically (according to the common definitions for soldering, brazing, and welding) I think it is -- a matter of the relative melting points of the base and filler materials. I tend to think of brazing (in a purely practical way) as "poor man's welding" -- but it's really high temp soldering since the base metal isn't melted. I've just never really thought of "brazing" brass (as the base metal) -- I guess since I've typically used brazing to repair outdoor steel implements and machinery. Now I realize that I've brazed a few things on brass instruments when I was using silver solder.

[Posaunus]

Yup. I think of silver soldering brass as brazing.
I did it decades ago when I knew what I was doing.

[pfrancis]

…… I was working on a few Conn 6D horns about a week ago. These horns were less than a year old and the alloy used on the stop arms was VERY soft. I had to treat those rotor parts with a delicate touch…..that’s not normal for Conn.

Unfortunately I think your experience with the “quality” of newer CS instruments is not uncommon. Very simply put, in my personal opinion, things aren’t what they used to be at CS. I suggest there is simply a new normal which leaves many wanting, and an open door for competitors to stroll through and provide a better product.

[pfrancis]

On topic:

If the broken part is indeed an Accent the cheapest part will be from whomever sold the instrument. The best fix will likely be a freshly *made* part by a competent tech. It will cost more but should be stronger and more likely to hold up over time.

[brassmedic]

That makes more sense. I was wondering how you'd actually braze a joint like that.

VEEEERY carefully!!!!

And IMHO, high temp silver soldering is brazing.

It's a type of brazing. It's not wrong to call it silver soldering though, and it's more specific. Silver solder flows into the joint easily. Braze is more viscous and tends to clump onto the surface.

[ghmerrill]

Silver solder flows into the joint easily. Braze is more viscous and tends to clump onto the surface.

Important subleties -- showing that what makes the soldering/brazing distinction isn't the technique or metallurgical result (e.g., compared to welding), but the material used (often for strength purposes) and whether it's being used in part to "fill" a void in the joint or to "cover" the junction of the joint (though that's not a great way of putting it).

If your mind isn't already numb from these distinctions, take a look at https://www.adorfon.com/brazing-process ... zing-rods/, which lays out in some detail the distinctions between brazing/soldering and welding.

[Bonearzt]

Silver solder flows into the joint easily. Braze is more viscous and tends to clump onto the surface.

Important subleties -- showing that what makes the soldering/brazing distinction isn't the technique or metallurgical result (e.g., compared to welding), but the material used (often for strength purposes) and whether it's being used in part to "fill" a void in the joint or to "cover" the junction of the joint (though that's not a great way of putting it).

If your mind isn't already numb from these distinctions, take a look at https://www.adorfon.com/brazing-process ... zing-rods/, which lays out in some detail the distinctions between brazing/soldering and welding.

Interesting info on "brazing"!

[brassmedic]

Important subleties -- showing that what makes the soldering/brazing distinction isn't the technique or metallurgical result (e.g., compared to welding), but the material used (often for strength purposes) and whether it's being used in part to "fill" a void in the joint or to "cover" the junction of the joint (though that's not a great way of putting it).

If your mind isn't already numb from these distinctions, take a look at https://www.adorfon.com/brazing-process ... zing-rods/, which lays out in some detail the distinctions between brazing/soldering and welding.

Interesting info on "brazing"!

Cool. I also think this is a good explanation:

https://www.thewelderswarehouse.com/blo ... der-braze/

Silver Solder & Braze, what’s the difference?

For me, the key difference is how they work on the joint.
Silver Solder

Silver Solder is more fluid than Braze and works by being drawn into the joint by a capillary action. So if, for example, you want to join two pieces of thin sheet metal together, you would need to overlap them. The Silver Solder will be drawn through the joint, filling the minute crack between the two pieces of metal, bonding with the surfaces to join them. If you tried to butt the two pieces of metal together, there simply wouldn’t be enough surface area touching to achieve a strong joint.

Silver Solder is used with a Flux, which chemically cleans the metal and keeps it clean during the Silver Soldering process. Silver Solder is also know as Silver Brazing.
Braze

Braze on the other hand, does not get drawn into the joint, but is built up on the surface of the metal being joined, so it looks more like a weld. Like Silver Solder, the Braze material bonds with the surface of the metal being joined.

Braze is used with a Flux, which chemically cleans the metal and keeps it clean during the Brazing process. Brazing is also known as Bronze Welding.

What Silver Solder & Braze have in common is that neither involve melting the metal that’s being joined, that would be welding!

I keep brazing rod at the shop. It's not very good for making parts or making seamed tubing or bell seams, but it is useful for patching holes when you don't want to soft solder a brass patch on. It's more plastic than silver solder when it melts, and you can "paint" it onto the surface of the metal, then easily smooth it out with a file or emery cloth after it cools.