New Slide Break-In Period, What’s Your Experience?

[pbone3b]

I find that whether it’s a new slide, or a rebuilt slide, there’s always that break-in period of green/black accumulation on the inners that needs to be wiped off, over and over. Action is great, but gunk slows it down. This goes away over time, but what’s everyone’s experience for how long this takes?

It’s been a solid 2 or 3 months on one new slide in particular, and that’s with fairly frequent tub snaking, slide-o-mix terry cloth thingy swabbing, etc…

Every experience will be different, just interested in hearing others’ experiences.

[GabrielRice]

The slide-o-mix terry cloth thing is not very effective for this. Much better to use an older style cleaning rod with a loop at the end wrapped with enough cheap muslin so that's there's friction as you use it. This will clean the surfaces much, much better.

Christan Griego of Edwards give a good demo here:

[ghmerrill]

I find that the Terry cloth things generate quite a bit of friction. But I don't use them much any more (and then typically only for something like final drying of a cleaned slide) because to be really assiduous about it you should wash them thoroughly after every (or at least every "serious" cleaning). And that's a bit of a pain -- even if you have a few of them to rotate through. And even if you machine wash them, I wonder how clean they really are after scrubbing out a slide. But I find the cheesecloth strips provide about the same level of pain in use.

What I've taken to using is three 3-inch square (lint-free) 12-ga. shotgun cleaning patches (at least for the bass) in the regular cleaning rod. Just use 'em and toss 'em. Excellent friction in the inners and outers. No clean-up. Mirror finish in the inners. But for traditionalists, the cheesecloth strips work great.

(And yes, I know the concerns about getting a rod stuck in your slide with patches that are too tight, or poking a hole through the crook, or scratching your slide, ... But I just can't see these as realistic concerns for an adult -- well, okay, most adults.)

[JTeagarden]

It’s also my experience that cheesecloth doesn’t work very well, try instead bedsheets ripped lengthwise, about 5 inches wide, the trombone doctor suggests using a high a thread count as you can find!

This works great, you can wash the strips over and over, and you can pick up old sheets for next to nothing at a thrift store.

[ghmerrill]

It’s also my experience that cheesecloth doesn’t work very well, try instead bedsheets ripped lengthwise, about 5 inches wide, the trombone doctor suggests using a high a thread count as you can find!

Sounds like a good idea, but I can't see my wife being too enthusiastic about going in that direction: "Hey! What happened to all the sheets?"

[GabrielRice]

Sheets are expensive. Muslin from the fabric store is cheap. That's what Steve Shires uses.

[pbone3b]

Thanks Guys! Cleaning Rod and Muslin on the way!

[JTeagarden]

Sheets are expensive. Muslin from the fabric store is cheap. That's what Steve Shires uses.

Not new ones, ratty stained old ones!

[Posaunus]

Once a bedsheet has reached the end of its useful life, snag it from the linen closet and claim it for your trombone hygiene lab. You'll have a lifetime supply of cloth strips. Very effective!
Then ... be a hero by purchasing a beautiful new sheet for your bed.

[GabrielRice]

Once a bedsheet has reached the end of its useful life, snag it from the linen closet and claim it for your trombone hygiene lab. You'll have a lifetime supply of cloth strips. Very effective!
Then ... be a hero by purchasing a beautiful new sheet for your bed.

And while you're waiting for your bedsheets to be sufficiently ratty and your slides are getting gummier and gummier, you can buy enough muslin for the rest your life - and give enough away for the rest of your friends' lives too - for less than the cost of one set of low-quality bedsheets.

[ghmerrill]

... for less than the cost of one set of low-quality bedsheets.

Yeah, except the cost of used and discarded clean, fully functional, high quality bedsheets is 0. Though in full disclosure, I'm not sure it's worth the effort. I resent the time I have to spend in cutting things up in various ways, and would rather shell out a bit of money for the convenience -- which is why I use the cleaning patches I do. But we all have different comfort zones.

[LetItSlide]

I can see the case for using high-thread-count bedsheet fabric. That should put a finer polish on the insides of the outer slide tubes than cheesecloth, but I use cheesecloth like many other folks.

One thing that's given me good results is swabbing with Calcium Lime Rust (CLR) liquid, especially if a slide has been sitting unplayed for months. I follow that with thorough water rinsing, then alcohol swabbing, then dry swabbing. That seems to leave the slides tubes as clean as anything else -- nice bare, polished brass that is mostly free of mineral and brass corrosion junk. Then I evenly spread a little Yamaha goo on the ends of the inner slides, and spray with water.

[muschem]

One thing that's given me good results is swabbing with Calcium Lime Rust (CLR) liquid, especially if a slide has been sitting unplayed for months.

You probably don't expose the slide to the product long enough for it to be a huge issue, but for what it's worth, their product page has a warning for using it on brass:

What will Calcium, Lime and Rust Remover do to brass, copper or aluminum?

Calcium, Lime and Rust Remover can not only remove the finish off of brass, aluminum and copper, but can also pit certain grades of brass, copper and aluminum.

They list nickel, bronze, brass, and copper among the surface types that the product should not be used on. I've never tried it, and if it works well for you, awesome! Just thought I'd mention the warning.

[Lhbone]

In case it is helpful to anyone else, my go-to has been following Matt Walker's instructions for his M&W horns. His slides have close tolerances, so he provides a good step-by-step guide. I follow these steps for new slides and for recently repaired & chem cleaned slides. It seems to be the best way to get a slide back in optimal condition.

https://img1.wsimg.com/blobby/go/684990 ... 5013522462

[Fidbone]

Break & clutch cleaning fluid is a game changer. This is what Rath use regularly!
Make sure you flush it out after swabbing.

[ghmerrill]

One thing that's given me good results is swabbing with Calcium Lime Rust (CLR) liquid, especially if a slide has been sitting unplayed for months.

You probably don't expose the slide to the product long enough for it to be a huge issue, but for what it's worth, their product page has a warning for using it on brass:

I have used either white vinegar (acetic acid) or CLR to remove deposits from tubas and trombones. You need to be careful because if left in contact with the horn for too long these can leach the zinc out of the brass matrix (called "dezincification"), basically leaving your brass with "holes" in the alloy where the zinc was.

How long is "too long"? The usual "cleaning time" suggested is 10-20 minutes with a maximum of 30 minutes. When I use vinegar or CLR, I keep it on the lower side (e.g., 10 minutes, or even less) and then flush and repeat if I think it's necessary. I have come close to ruining a very nice (red brass) horn by leaving it too long in contact with vinegar. Once you do that, there's no way back.

I also don't see any point in using these chemicals on a new or carefully and regularly maintained horn. But for old (and semi-neglected) horns they may be appropriate. If you're not already pretty sure you've got a calcium deposits problem, it's best to stay away from things that are basically zinc solvents.

[tbdana]

I use a cleaning rod with strips of an old cotton t-shirt, along with the brass saver.

But I also found that using Trombotine on the slide hastens the break-in, for some reason, in a way that Slide-o-mix or Yama-snot do not. I don't know what the chemistry is, but Trombotine has shortened the break-in period on multiple slides for me, so there must be something there. But you can only use a microscopically tiny amount or it gets gummy.

[LetItSlide]

One thing that's given me good results is swabbing with Calcium Lime Rust (CLR) liquid, especially if a slide has been sitting unplayed for months.

You probably don't expose the slide to the product long enough for it to be a huge issue, but for what it's worth, their product page has a warning for using it on brass:

What will Calcium, Lime and Rust Remover do to brass, copper or aluminum?

Calcium, Lime and Rust Remover can not only remove the finish off of brass, aluminum and copper, but can also pit certain grades of brass, copper and aluminum.

They list nickel, bronze, brass, and copper among the surface types that the product should not be used on. I've never tried it, and if it works well for you, awesome! Just thought I'd mention the warning.

Thank you for the heads-up on this. So far, I've used CLR to swab for about 30 seconds, then I rinse it out/off. Knowing it can have the effects you list, I will reconsider whether I'll use it again.

[ghmerrill]

But I also found that using Trombotine on the slide hastens the break-in, for some reason, in a way that Slide-o-mix or Yama-snot do not.

The obvious conclusion here would be that the "some reason" that Trombotine hastens the break-in is that it provides a greater degree of fine abrasion (or perhaps just surface-on-surface friction) than the Slide-o-mix or Yama-snot -- and thus "smooths" out the slide faster. (Yes, I know that Trombotine users will find this conclusion offensive. Sorry.)

More generally, something that "hastens break-in" may not be what you want to use as your final long-term lubricant -- just as you wouldn't want to use a valve-lapping compound as a lubricant even though it may be a critical element in ... er ... lapping (breaking in) piston valves.

Am I seriously suggesting that Trombotine is actually an abrasive? No. But I am suggesting that its lubricating qualities may be inferior to other substances -- at least based on the observation that it hastens break-in.

[Posaunus]

Trombotine slide lubricant has no abrasives. Used by trombonists for decades, this product was (allegedly) compounded in England based on the formula for the original Pond's Cold Cream. Pond's was the "go-to" slide lubricant for many years (inexpensive and easily purchased at any drug store), but at some point (1960s?) Pond's changed the formulation by adding lanolin to the cream, which may have made it better as a skin moisturizer and makeup remover, but effectively ruined it as a slide lubricant.

I still have a jar of the original Pond's Cold Cream and can verify that it does not lubricate a trombone slide as well as modern lubricants such as Yamaha or Rapid Comfort.

[BGuttman]

Trombotine and Pond's have soluble waxes in the formula. In Pond's it's Ceresin and beeswax (a synthetic version in newer jars). The waxes will "finish" the inside of the outer slide, which is raw brass, to make the result smoother. Yamaha and SOM are silicone formulations which depend on the silicone oil for their slickness, which is much slipperier than the cream formulae (Trombotine, Superslick, Pond's) which depend on the wax with water for their slopperiness.

Sometimes a break-in using a relatively heavy application of Trombotine followed by a clean out and then your favorite lube can make for a nice smooth slide.

[ghmerrill]

Yamaha and SOM are silicone formulations which depend on the silicone oil for their slickness, which is much slipperier than the cream formulae (Trombotine, Superslick, Pond's) ...

Not to mention the surfactant in the Yamaslime (I don't know if there's any in the SOM). I have to think that the surfactant plays a significant role in the Yamaha product.