Should I have my horn disassembled and then reassembled?

[rmb796]

Hi Everyone,
My Bach 42 with a "Jay Friedman" bell (42G*) has a terrible high Ab. I actually feel a vibration in the horn and that one note is very hard to hit. (I can hit it fine on my Bach 42 straight horn). I am wondering if this problem would be corrected by sending it to a good tech and having them disassemble it and then carefully reassemble it. Or, is this problem strictly in the bell?

Don't know whether to look for another really good 42 or try and fix this one. I love everything else about the horn.

Thanks,

Randy Brown

[MStarke]

Leaving the other aspect to the techs, but before anything else: Have you had someone else try it? Sometimes we get a bit mentally caught into "this and that doesn't work on my horn" so that it can become a self-fulfilling prophecy. Not saying you are wrong, just something to check before going to more radical measures.

[Kbiggs]

Before you deconstruct and reconstruct the horn, certainly have another player try it. The late Denis Wick wrote in his Trombone Technique how a student had difficulty with the high Ab on his instrument, so Wick played a high Ab on the student’s horn for a few minutes. The high Ab worked thereafter. (Fun fact: one of our fellow TCers is that student, and wrote a little more about the story. It’s here somewhere on TC…)

Check that all the connections are in-line and seal properly: water-key cork, water-key screw, the tenon is straight and round, and the bell section screw fits snugly. If it’s a convertible horn, make sure the bell connectors are snug and in alignment. If it’s a valved instrument, make valve covers are snug but not tight, and that the valve is aligned properly. Check the tuning slide, too, while you’re at it.

Occasionally a slightly different mouthpiece (throat size and shape, backbore, etc.) can help, if you’re okay with that change.

High Ab tends to be a problem note on trombones, more so on large-bore American-style instruments than, say, Germanic-style horns. I believe it’s a design feature.

[Blabberbucket]

I would try having the leadpipe pulled, converting the slide to a press fit leadpipe, and experimenting with some different pipes before having the entire horn reassembled.

That said, I have seen some pretty atrocious assembly work on 42s in my time. It certainly wouldn't hurt the instrument to have someone skilled at assembly work rebuild it.

[tbonesullivan]

Does it still have this problem if you remove the F-attachment tuning slide? Sympathetic vibration can definitely be a PITA, if that is what is causing this issue. When I notice an issue like this I usually clean out the inside of the attachment tuning slides, and regrease them. I have a bass trombone that gets a horrible sympathetic vibration when the Eb tuning crook is in the second valve, UNLESS I use super thick tuning slide grease.

I have the same issue with a Bach LT36B when the F attachment tuning slide is not fully greased. So you may want to start there.

[rmb796]

Welp...
Unless I find a really good 42 with a thin gold brass bell, I will be getting more comfortable playing Ab in 5 position!
Thanks for all of your comments and kind advice.

Randy

[RJMason]

Like Kenneth wrote, the high Ab on a trombone is kind of like a “wolf tone” on a cello. You have to spend time ironing it out. In terms of sympathetic rings I have a rawhide mallet that sometimes I gently tap on an area that is ringing and it goes away. Mess with the little details before reassembling. Degrease then reapply on tuning slides, maybe replace cork barrels, maybe mess with tightening and loosening the water key assembly screw. Sounds loopy but those micro tweaks can help smooth things out in surprising ways. After that, I agree with what David said above.

[Driswood]

Like Kenneth wrote, the high Ab on a trombone is kind of like a “wolf tone” on a cello. You have to spend time ironing it out. In terms of sympathetic rings I have a rawhide mallet that sometimes I gently tap on an area that is ringing and it goes away. Mess with the little details before reassembling. Degrease then reapply on tuning slides, maybe replace cork barrels, maybe mess with tightening and loosening the water key assembly screw. Sounds loopy but those micro tweaks can help smooth things out in surprising ways. After that, I agree with what David said above.

I was at an Alessi Clinic once. When Joe walked in, his first words were “How’s everyone’s Ab?”

[rmb796]

Thanks for all the advice. I am glad you mentioned Alessi s comment. It's not just me!!
I loosened one of my bell braces 1 1/2 turns and put some plumbers tape on the threads. This has seemed to
help.
Thanks again
randy

[Bach5G]

…

That said, I have seen some pretty atrocious assembly work on 42s in my time. It certainly wouldn't hurt the instrument to have someone skilled at assembly work rebuild it.

I had Benn H put a Thayer on an old 42B. He found a sizeable blob of solder just inside the proximal leg of the main tuning slide.