The Gen-X Career Meltdown

[robcat2075]

This article isn't specifically about music careers but it is about what has happened to the many show-biz adjacent careers like it that we looked upon with interest.

Article Free to read: The Gen X Career Meltdown

In “Generation X,” the 1991 novel that defined the generation born in the 1960s and 1970s, Douglas Coupland chronicled a group of young adults who learn to reconcile themselves to “diminishing expectations of material wealth.” Lessness, Mr. Coupland called this philosophy.

For many of the Gen X-ers who embarked on creative careers in the years after the novel was published, lessness has come to define their professional lives.

If you entered media or image-making in the ’90s — magazine publishing, newspaper journalism, photography, graphic design, advertising, music, film, TV — there’s a good chance that you are now doing something else for work. That’s because those industries have shrunk or transformed themselves radically, shutting out those whose skills were once in high demand.

“I am having conversations every day with people whose careers are sort of over,” said Chris Wilcha, a 53-year-old film and TV director in Los Angeles...

I know people in their 40s and 50s who, for a while, seemed to have attained a much more luminous career than I ever did. However, I'm retired now and they still have 10-20 years yet to slug it out just to get to that.

What are they going to do now that no one needs them to do what they do?

[NathanSobieralski]

I guess this is nothing new. There was an entire generation of electrical engineers, manufacturing, service/repair dedicated to vacuum tube based electronics, more or less gone over the span of 15 years or so.

[hyperbolica]

Don't put too much value on common wisdom. I started as an engineer, and have done more and more writing the older I get.

[tbdana]

I was going to be a music copyist.



In L.A. there was a pretty big demand for people who could write out parts from a score, do it neatly and professionally, and crank them out quickly. I was pretty good at that.

But thanks to the advent of computer music notation software, those jobs dried up completely. There are no more music copyists.

[harrisonreed]

It still is an art and skill to be able to engrave music, though. TBH, we could use more people who know how to engrave music that looks good and is readable, especially with the correct notation / accents for jazz rhythms, specifically on computer programs. MuseScore and Finale are responsible for the ugliest music I've ever had to read, even though you can actually engrave good music on those programs, if you put even a little effort into learning them.

[mbarbier]

I was going to be a music copyist.



In L.A. there was a pretty big demand for people who could write out parts from a score, do it neatly and professionally, and crank them out quickly. I was pretty good at that.

But thanks to the advent of computer music notation software, those jobs dried up completely. There are no more music copyists.

There's a lot fewer than there used to be, but there are still a few copy spots in LA. Especially Fine Line Music Services- I think they mostly function as an orchestration house but also make parts for folks, there's a few others but they're the big one in town. As parts seem to get uglier and more poorly made, the sessions and live scores they make the parts for REALLY stand out. But it's sad how much smaller that part of the industry has gotten- so many folks make pretty bad parts, which end up costing money needlessly.

[officermayo]

But thanks to the advent of computer music notation software, those jobs dried up completely. There are no more music copyists.

I absolutely HATE the way some programs write music. Unneeded accidentals are my pet peeve. Since my vision has dimmed recently, if I see a natural I think it's a sharp since there was no reason to put a crutch on the paper.

Sixteenth notes separated by rests but having their flags connected is another one.

In church orchestra I see tiny roadmap notes written instead of using a DS or a coda.

DRIVES ME CRAZY.

[ghmerrill]

What are they going to do now that no one needs them to do what they do?

This is nothing new. In such a situation, you do something else.

I have two children who are 45 and 48 respectively. They're doing fine (actually, quite a bit better than fine). Did they follow the path that their mother and I felt was critically important? Uh, no.

One followed a passion to be a (public) middle school math teacher, and lasted about 8 years in that role before giving up in frustration due to an environment in which she had largely become a baby sitter, fight referee, and paper-shuffling clerk. She then paid her dues in getting into industry at a low level, exceeding at that, and is now working at what I'll call a "low executive level" in a highly "analytical" role involving data and risk analysis. She loves it.

The other dumped college part-way through his freshman year, went into the "tech industry" at a menial level (basically as a shipping clerk), worked his way up into software engineering, got a B.S. degree paid for by the large international company he'd worked his way up to, and just climbed the technical ladder at a steep angle into the development and management ranks -- now through different jobs in several very large and some small/medium companies.

I started life with years of study to become an academic philosopher, which I did for a decade ... until I decided to do something different. Who "needs" an academic philosopher (show of hands, please)? But I liked doing it ... until I didn't.

This idea that once you've learned or trained to do something, that's what your stuck with? No, actually, you're not.

So ... What are "they" going to do? That's really up to them. Opportunities abound. Such is life.

[robcat2075]

I was going to be a music copyist.

When I was a student at U of North Texas I took a class billed as "advanced orchestration".

As taught by the TA leading it, it was 1% orchestration skills and 99% copyist skills.

With his special paper and pens and rulers he produced hand-inked scores and parts that were indistinguishable from commercially-engraved, professional-look music.

As a composer, his music was littered with every known extended-practice-notation and gimmick that make up "new music", but to look upon his score you might be fooled into thinking he was an established and serious modern composer.

indeed, I think that is how one of his pieces got selected for the annual once-a-year read-through of a student work by the U orchestra.

I sat in on that rehearsal. Klunk, pluck, boom, shriek, scratchedy-scratch. Grind-grind-grind.

I don't think they ever got through more than 10 seconds without a breakdown. There's a limit to what perfect notation will get you when the music is crap.

Anyway, this was c. 1985 and I already had a computer at home that could set basic notation, print it out, even play it, sort of and I figured there was something better than hand-copied parts on the way.

[robcat2075]

Sixteenth notes separated by rests but having their flags connected is another one.

That has become accepted as a correct option and composers have been employing that that for 100+ years... sometimes.

But the program I am familiar with (Musescore) can do them connected or unconnected and likewise for most of the other complaints I hear about computer notation.

If you are getting something you don't like... it's probably operator error.

[ghmerrill]

If you are getting something you don't like... it's probably operator error.

Or a really poorly designed and implemented UI overlaying bizarrely conceived "features" that invite "operator error".

[harrisonreed]

Sixteenth notes separated by rests but having their flags connected is another one.

This is a very good technique to show beat division. I find it particularly useful in mixed or otherwise unusually metered music. I think it's completely accepted as a good practice in more modern music.

[tbdana]

Klunk, pluck, boom, shriek, scratchedy-scratch. Grind-grind-grind.

That description cracked me up, because that's exactly what I think of a lot of new music.

[harrisonreed]

If you are getting something you don't like... it's probably operator error.

Or a really poorly designed and implemented UI overlaying bizarrely conceived "features" that invite "operator error".

That's because MuseScore is pretty terrible. Engraving software peaked with Sibelius 6. But you can absolutely make beautiful scores with MuseScore. You just need to know how to use the software, and it is not as intuitive as the old Sibelius was.

[ghmerrill]

That's because MuseScore is pretty terrible.

It's old technology from a simpler time, designed and built on an old vision where "features" and "functions" were thought to be the only measure of goodness in software. And where repairs and improvements were warted onto the product for decades. You can't fault it for what it was, and you can't fault it for not becoming something else. It is what it is.

Hey, I come from the even older days when the answer to any user inquiry at "The Labs" was "RTFM". But I never bought into that.

[officermayo]

Sixteenth notes separated by rests but having their flags connected is another one.

f you are getting something you don't like... it's probably operator error.

I get no operator error using a felt tip marker and manuscript paper with my arrangements. Also, no complaints from my musicians

[harrisonreed]

That's because MuseScore is pretty terrible.

It's old technology from a simpler time, designed and built on an old vision where "features" and "functions" were thought to be the only measure of goodness in software. And where repairs and improvements were warted onto the product for decades. You can't fault it for what it was, and you can't fault it for not becoming something else. It is what it is.

Hey, I come from the even older days when the answer to any user inquiry at "The Labs" was "RTFM". But I never bought into that.

I think Sibelius outdates MuseScore and MuSE by almost a decade. MuseScore is newer but it's terrible. I can fault that.

[BGuttman]

Sibelius won out over Finale and Encore. MuseScore was built as a "low cost alternative", probably by former coders of some of the other old and failed applications. MuseScore is much nicer than Lilypond and Noteworthy Composer.

Back on the original topic, I had a career that started making photographic film (remember what that was? Big US producers were Kodak and Polaroid.). Then I moved into producing printed circuit boards, When I was over 50 the electronics industry decided my technical skills were obsolete and just kicked me out ("Don't let the door hit you on the a** as you leave."). So I have great sympathy for those the Doge Kids are forcing out in their chainsaw style of cost saving. I think Elon will have his comeuppance when his cyber whiz-kids discover that the computer programs being used by these "old dog" agencies were written in a language called COBOL, which is unlike any of the modern languages in use today. Including incompatible data structures. The cost of updating these systems is going to exceed any savings they can ever achieve. I had an associate in one band who made a good retirement living as a COBOL maintainer. Problem is this guy is gone and many of the other retired COBOL programmers. And the consequence of trying to replace these computer systems will be catastrophic to the US.

[officermayo]

[ghmerrill]

I think Sibelius outdates MuseScore and MuSE by almost a decade. MuseScore is newer but it's terrible. I can fault that.

I really don't want to be in the position of defending MuseScore (which I've tried several times and just walked away in frustration and disappointment). But ...

Actually Sibilius started long before that, and was very unusual in its vision and scope -- with an early commitment to the UI and UX experience and "ease of use" (even before such terms became common parlance and when that was much more difficult to do than it is today). MuseScore was started almost 20 years later as a "hobby project" in the mode of the "open source" and "free software" movements. Sibelious was started as a profit-making enterprise by people with a clear vision who really knew what they were doing.

My point is (and everyone knows this, of course) that MuseScore was always a kind of "free crowdware" approach. Again, it is what it is: as advertised, "Free music composition and notation software." How often do we see on these forums that "You get what you pay for." -- in terms of instruments. But people expect more in terms of software? Of course -- theoretically -- you COULD have what you want in terms of a free software application comparable to Sibelius. Theoretically. But there's a reason that "MuseScore is ... terrible".

[ghmerrill]

... "old dog" agencies were written in a language called COBOL, which is unlike any of the modern languages in use today. Including incompatible data structures.

Anyone who's worked extensively in (or with) people and organizations in these environments (and this includes government organizations, banks, financial trading platforms, a broad range of medical/hospital/practice/insurance organizations, and large retail chains) knows that the problem isn't the language of implementation that's even remotely the problem. It's the organizations and the management philosophies and personnel who run them. Problems such as incompatible data structures (a significant issue in medical records and research in which I've personally been heavily involved) are widespread but not intransigent, and great progress is being made. It does take some time for certain levels of management to be "aged out" and replaced by people who know that COBOL and particular RDB structures aren't the real problems.

The cost of updating these systems is going to exceed any savings they can ever achieve.

Nope, this just isn't true -- and, if you really want to believe this -- think of what its consequences would really be.

[harrisonreed]

I think Sibelius outdates MuseScore and MuSE by almost a decade. MuseScore is newer but it's terrible. I can fault that.

Actually Sibilius started long before that, and was very unusual in its vision and scope -- with an early commitment to the UI and UX experience and "ease of use" (even before such terms became common parlance and when that was much more difficult to do than it is today). MuseScore was started almost 20 years later as a "hobby project" in the mode of the "open source" and "free software" movements.

MuseScore is from 2 September, 2002, a branch of the midi software MuSE (from 2000). Sibelius is from April 1993. That's about ten years.

In any case, my point is that even with paid software that is good, people produce sheet music that actively works against the musician and makes interpreting it difficult. MuseScore, the newer software that had a decade of cues it could have taken notes from but didn't, is something that it seems all the musicians have jumped on because it's free. I don't blame them for that. But because of that, and because it's so unintuitive, the sheet music you get now from your colleague arrangers looks even worse than ever!

To bring it back to Dana's point, and the OP -- the free software has just made it worse for people who want to create sheet music professionally. We need music copyists and engravers, still, and they need to know how to use the (hopefully good) tools they have. It's too bad musicians don't take effort in the parts they make like they do in picking out a case or a mouthpiece.

[ghmerrill]

We need music copyists and engravers, still, and they need to know how to use the tools they have. It's too bad musicians don't take effort in the parts they make like they do in picking out a case or a mouthpiece.

Ah, so your gripe is that people don't make the effort to use tools that (ignoring their "quality" and ease of use for a moment) might still suffice -- if only those choosing to use them would take the time to understand better what they're trying to do (which is tool-independent), and then take the time to learn how best to do that with their chosen tools. I think that's a story as old as our prehistoric ancestors.

[robcat2075]

MuseScore is from 2 September, 2002, a branch of the midi software MuSE (from 2000). Sibelius is from April 1993. That's about ten years.

The name may go back that far but the program is mostly a complete re-write by new owners beginning in 2022 with v4.0.

[timothy42b]

MuseScore is from 2 September, 2002, a branch of the midi software MuSE (from 2000). Sibelius is from April 1993. That's about ten years.

The name may go back that far but the program is mostly a complete re-write by new owners beginning in 2022 with v4.0.

I did not know that, I might have to take another look.

My impression last time I tried to use Musescore was that it carefully avoided the intuitive way to do most things in an effort to avoid copyright infringement.

[robcat2075]

It was harder than I thought!

[ghmerrill]

The name may go back that far but the program is mostly a complete re-write by new owners beginning in 2022 with v4.0.

Then there would seem to be little excuse for maintaining such a cumbersome approach to usability. However, in general, "re-write" doesn't mean either "re-design" or "improvement for users".

[ghmerrill]

My impression last time I tried to use Musescore was that it carefully avoided the intuitive way to do most things in an effort to avoid copyright infringement.

I'm not sure what that says about the developers' understanding of "copyright" (or patent) law, or about their ability to conceive of a good UI/UX approach not based on copying someone else's product. So I'm pretty skeptical of this as the fundamental reason for actually "avoiding" a usable design.

[ghmerrill]

Apropos (I think) to the original question/point/whatever ... this paper contains some interesting observations and considerations in the context of a similar situation faced when horse-drawn wagons driven by teamsters faced (and were ultimately subjected to) replacement by "motor trucks" -- including the "costs" of such a replacement both in terms of business costs and costs to workers in their lives and living.

You'll probably want to skip all the modelling math in Section 2 and go directly to section "Section 3 Teamsters". They spend a bunch of time talking about "anticipatory dread." There are some really interesting (data-supported) observations and generalizations in it -- including about the effects on "older" vs. "younger" workers and their responses to the change.

"Obsolescence Rents: Teamsters, Truckers, and Impending Innovations"
https://warwick.ac.uk/fac/soc/economics ... _rents.pdf

[robcat2075]

I agree that occupation obsolescence is not new to the economy, but it is new to every generation that runs into it and surprising to most everyone when it happens.

Apropos (I think) to the original question/point/whatever ... this paper contains some interesting observations and considerations in the context of a similar situation faced when horse-drawn wagons driven by teamsters faced (and were ultimately subjected to) replacement by "motor trucks"

If I read their conclusions right, as an occupation declines, younger people tend not to enter it and older people hang on to it, causing the average age to the occupation's worker set to skew older. When some new workers ARE needed it becomes more expensive to get new people to jump in.

I wonder how that will play out in the current situation where the first move of employers in tightening economics has been to unload the older workers first and keep the cheaper younger ones.

Another difference I note between the horse-wagon drivers (teamsters) and today's fading careers is that today's careers were aspirational careers. I doubt anyone in 1900 was aspiring to be a teamster but in 2000, working at a magazine or a record company or an ad agency were desirable things.

Also interesting, as the paper looked at some c. 1900 declining female careers, was that skilled female jobs (dress and hat makers) seemed to pay way more than the skilled jobs driving horses.

[ghmerrill]

If I read their conclusions right, as an occupation declines, younger people tend not to enter it and older people hang on to it, ...

Well, this is where description and categorization can make differences in the meaning of what you say and the meaning of statistics derived from observations using those descriptions/categorizations. If the occupation is "horse team driver", then yes younger people tend not to enter it. If the occupation is "delivery driver" than young people do tend to enter it -- but driving trucks rather than horses.

causing the average age to the occupation's worker set to skew older.

Yes, if the occupation is "horse team driver", but not if the occupation is "delivery driver," and definitely not if the occupation is "motor truck delivery driver."

When some new workers ARE needed it becomes more expensive to get new people to jump in.

Yeah ... see? When some new workers AT WHAT JOB? it will be hard to get "new workers" to jump into the "horse driving" job (but how realistic is it to imagine that the number of those "needed" would be significant), but not the "motor truck driving" job. And then, if you use a broader category to generate your observations and statistics, like "delivery driver" (encompassing both horse and motor truck driver) you'll get even different statistics. Add to that the effect of "re-training" early or mid-career workers (or even late-career workers who may be willing) in the "delivery driver job" (which now has shifted to be about the same population as the "motor truck delivery driver" job, and you get even more complication in your analysis.

I wonder how that will play out in the current situation where the first move of employers in tightening economics has been to unload the older workers first and keep the cheaper younger ones.

If it's the tech area that's under discussion, I think it's a myth that you'll need a lot of the "old workers" to maintain limping and antiquated systems. People think that converting those old implementations and services will be a mind-boggling task of complexity. But -- for several different reasons -- it won't. People think of all those "millions of lines of code that have to be converted" the millions of data base tables that need conversion, and of "programmers" toiling to change that code, or change the databases -- their fingers getting bloodied on the keyboards as they work long overtime hours to replace these massive systems, while others hold back the darkness by actively supporting the antiquated ones. It ain't gonna be that way. It ain't that way now. And a secondary market will develop to aid it as well. Again, the major stumbling blocks in transitions like this (whether they're technological or business process) are organizational -- making the decisions and achieving the agreements to move forward. I've seen this happen over a couple of decades both in the software industry and in the (highly regulated) pharmaceutical industry. I don't mean to belittle or demphasize the amount of work and time that will be involved. But it's not the impossibility that most people think it is.

I doubt anyone in 1900 was aspiring to be a teamster ...

I don't. That's pre-WWI, in which horses were still used in substantial numbers on the battlefield. Even in the 1920s in the US there was still widespread use of horses and mules in farming. There are still people living within a few miles of me who remember plowing with mules. But that was really at the end of the horse-drawn era. Watch this season of that Paramount+ "1923" series and you'll get a pretty accurate picture of the use of motor cars and trucks alongside horses and mules in large sections of the US.

Also interesting, as the paper looked at some c. 1900 declining female careers, was that skilled female jobs (dress and hat makers) seemed to pay way more than the skilled jobs driving horses.

Pretty much any grunt with enough stubbornness and muscles can learn to drive a horse and wagon. Dress making and hat making were arts.

[JohnL]

Also interesting, as the paper looked at some c. 1900 declining female careers, was that skilled female jobs (dress and hat makers) seemed to pay way more than the skilled jobs driving horses.

I suspect they weren't looking at women working in factories cranking out mass-produced hats and garments (i.e., sweatshops) but at milliners and dressmakers producing individual items for middle- and upper-class customers.

As for someone aspiring to be a teamster? I suspect a lot of the guys who made a living (such as it was) cleaning up after the horses looked at the teamster driving the wagon with a certain degree of envy...

[robcat2075]

If anyone did aspire to be a teamster in 1900, i doubt they underwent 4-6 years in college to get a BFA or MFA or MBA just to get to "entry-level".

Whatever they ended up doing after the company sent its last horse to the glue factory, they didn't still have a huge leftover debt from training to be a teamster.

That 1900 aspiration is measurably different from the aspirational jobs of 2000.

[harrisonreed]

It was harder than I thought!

Lol! That does look pretty easy now in MuseScore. I'm assuming they fixed how easy it is to group bars into systems so that you have your system breaks in places that make sense? That was my other gripe.

Why do people keep making such trash looking parts if it is this easy to do now in MuseScore??

[harrisonreed]

I was going to be a music copyist.

As a composer, his music was littered with every known extended-practice-notation and gimmick that make up "new music", but to look upon his score you might be fooled into thinking he was an established and serious modern composer.

indeed, I think that is how one of his pieces got selected for the annual once-a-year read-through of a student work by the U orchestra.

I sat in on that rehearsal. Klunk, pluck, boom, shriek, scratchedy-scratch. Grind-grind-grind.

I put my pants on like everyone else, one leg at a time, but once they're on I cut gold records.

I'm not getting enough of those filing cabinets. I need more filing cabinets.

[robcat2075]

I'm assuming they fixed how easy it is to group bars into systems so that you have your system breaks in places that make sense? That was my other gripe.

Forcing a break to a new line or a new page has been there for years, maybe forever. You just drop an icon onto the measure where you want the break to happen, or select the measure and click on the icon in the "layout" palette.

[ghmerrill]

If anyone did aspire to be a teamster in 1900, i doubt they underwent 4-6 years in college to get a BFA or MFA or MBA just to get to "entry-level".

Not quite sure what to make of this or what conclusion to draw from it. One of my kids dropped out of college after his first year, never got a college degree, and yet ended up having a superb career in such areas as software development, automated software installation and configuration, and technical support training at high levels (with IBM, HP, BB&T, and Red Hat in addition a couple of smaller companies). The other one (as I mentioned) dropped out after his first year, and then spent 10 years getting the CS degree (paid for by IBM) while ascending the development and management ladder.

Pretty much everybody starts at "entry-level" if they don't have genuine experience. And they may have to start at entry level again if their first path dead-ends. Even a BFA or MFA can be valuable -- not as a "ticket" to a job, but as actually providing some useful skills such as writing and analysis. I say "can be" advisedly because I've spent so much time in and around academia, and know the real story. But what you learn is up to you, and what you do is up to you.

Entry-level is just entry level. I've hired and mentored a number of people in "entry level" jobs who are at upper corporate, management, or academic levels today. I don't know where this idea of a college degree "getting" you a job came from. I certainly never believed it at any point in my life. Getting the college degree was to get you knowledge and understanding that you could use in a job (and the rest of your life). In part to teach you how to learn. Not to dump some stagnant bunch of "knowledge" on you. Sure, it's a kind of "certificate" -- but usually not a necessary one, and certainly not a sufficient one.

[ghmerrill]

That 1900 aspiration is measurably different from the aspirational jobs of 2000.

I'm honestly not sure what this might mean, though I think I kind of get it.

But one thing that history teaches (if you pay attention to it) is that the job you'll want (or need) to get in 20 years doesn't even exist today in many cases. And you'd better prepare for that instead of thinking that you need, or should get or try to get a job (or career) in a kind of narrow tunnel that you'll follow through to the end.

In high school, I only dreamed vaguely of becoming either a professional academic or scientist. In high school, college, and graduate school, I could not even dream of the work I'd be changing to in my mid-30s (since that work didn't exist at those times). I could not, in my mid-30s dream of what I ended up doing in my 40s, and even more so in my 50s and 60s. The world changed to provide more alternatives and more opportunities.

Aspiration is a moving target -- unless you view getting a job as jumping into a river that just carries you along and eventually dumps you out on a shore at some point.

I guess the only other thing perhaps worth noting pertains to security: security in your job, security in your life. There ultimately is no guaranteed security. Things change. Many of those things you have no control over. Life isn't a spectator sport. Live with it.

[robcat2075]

I don't know where this idea of a college degree "getting" you a job came from.

It doesn't get you the job, it's a minimum requirement to be considered.

You haven't encountered that? Great. Your kid hasn't encountered that? Great.

But that anecdotal sample of two doesn't mean there aren't many employers who spec a college degree in a relevant field as a minimum to be considered.

Why consider less when many will apply and you don't have all year to weed them out? The college graduate has demonstrated at a nominal ability to follow directions and complete assignments given by others.

You don't like that? You can file your complaint in that round receptacle outside the entrance.

NEXT!

[BGuttman]

The teamster of 1890 looking to start using a motor truck would have to have training on how to drive the thing (it's not intuitive, you know). Imagine if 30 years later we went from motor trucks to airplanes. What would our teamster do now? Take more training to fly airplanes? What if the teamster was incapable of getting a license to fly airplanes (corrective lenses were a disqualification until relatively recently)?

Same thing for the college grad of today. What if the requirements of the job for which you spent $100,000 to learn suddenly changed and you had to start all over again? But you are 30 years older, with commitments like family, a mortgage, and some remaining student loans? Employers don't want people skilled in obsolete or different technology and most of them can't see how that knowledge can be folded into their operation. I know. I experienced this first hand (except for the student loan -- I lucked out there).

[ghmerrill]

But that anecdotal sample of two doesn't mean there aren't many employers who spec a college degree in a relevant field as a minimum to be considered

And that doesn't mean that, when the chips are down and they give criteria to HR for a particular position, that those employers treat the college degree either as required or as a major component in the evaluation. I was involved in group and department management and hiring for over 20 years. I really do know how it works.

Sure there are cases where the degree requirement is a hard one. I lost (or more accurately, turned down) a job because of that once: Lincoln Laboratories (MIT) offered me a job doing cutting edge compiler development -- but with the requirement that I complete my M.S. in computer science as a condition for employment. I already had a good job (Bell Labs) in software tools development, and I already had a Ph.D. and publication record. But it was MIT and they felt they needed to be able to list a CS degree for whomever they put in the job. I politely told them to take a hike. I had all of that degree done except for turning in the thesis -- which was also done and I just had to write up. They knew that, but still were set on requiring that particular degree as a condition of employment. Let's not go into the reasons or rationale for that here.

Family events had caused me to put finishing that degree on the shelf, and I never turned it in. But I never needed it -- I had all the knowledge from doing the degree program, which is why I'd taken that program. But yeah, I "lost" a job for lack of a degree.

So there are cases where it can matter. But there are a LOT of cases where it doesn't, even if it may be made to appear as though it might. Been there; done that. There is almost always more than one way to skin a cat. And if there aren't, then find a different cat.

[ghmerrill]

What if the requirements of the job for which you spent $100,000 to learn suddenly changed and you had to start all over again? But you are 30 years older, with commitments like family, a mortgage, and some remaining student loans?

There are some good questions there. The most obvious ones circle around the decision to spend the $100,000 in the first place -- purportedly in order to get a "forever" job -- and do it on a loan that's still outstanding? And then stay in that forever job in some kind of stagnant role so then if things change you "can't" move on?

Yeah, I know that a lot of people have put themselves in that position. What's to say?

[robcat2075]

But that anecdotal sample of two doesn't mean there aren't many employers who spec a college degree in a relevant field as a minimum to be considered

And that doesn't mean that, when the chips are down and they give criteria to HR for a particular position, that those employers treat the college degree either as required or as a major component in the evaluation.

The chips aren't down for HR departments hiring for these gen-x aspiration jobs. Employers get to be picky in this environment even in the boom times. There isn't a shortage of people wanting these jobs.

It's like in the article

“I was in my 30s, making $31,000 a year,” Mr. Kandell said. “I remember an editor said, ‘You don’t want to work here? There will be a line around the block.’ There was this sense that you get to do this.”

[Digidog]

Amusing read, this thread! Great posts of thoughts and opinions.

My only contribution to this, is that given the demand for resources (check the consumption of electricity for streaming an episode of your favourite show, or storing your photos in a cloud service, f.ex.) in combination with depletion and degradation of our ecologic living conditions, we may very well, very soon, find ourselves forced back into a real economy. When, not if, that happens, many of the now disappearing, or already no longer needed, skills will come back in demand again, or we will face dramatic difficulties in sustaining.

I'm not grieving over the loss of no longer needed professions and skills, but in my prognostication I can see the increasing raise in the demand for practical and hands-on jobs and skills coming on real soon. Like repairing (private items like f.ex. cars and electronic devices), recycling, maintenance and tidying (garbage and waste handling and relocationing), agriculture and farming, healthcare and production of social services and functions, and whatnot that will be necessary to live in a failing ecology and environment.

I already see an increasing trend among my students (between 13 to about 25) to tire of digital phenomenons and digital use, and to more and more leave the world of digital areas of life. Already at the school where I teach, I see an increase in the number of bands the kids start (from zero to three in 2-3 years), and the number of kids asking me to direct them to either music shools or communal youth organizations for music is constantly increasing. I see a budding trend of reading actual books, from not reading at all or only (and then occasionally) on digital platforms, and a hunger for practical school subjects like laboratory work, practical experiments and drama. I am a very happy teacher to see and hear that.

These last months, I have twice seen new versions of Polaroid cameras being used by young students of mine, whom say that they like holding the actual picture better than having it on their phones, and that they like and prefer the unchangeable nature of a real photo.

I can only hope that this isn't just a flimsy trend that will blow over all too soon.

[ghmerrill]

The chips aren't down for HR departments hiring for these gen-x aspiration jobs. Employers get to be picky in this environment even in the boom times. There isn't a shortage of people wanting these jobs.

Yeah, but I'm not sure that the description "gen-x aspiration jobs" really captures that demographic. That article is all about jobs associated in one way or another with the entertainment industry (specifically "media or image-making") -- always a volatile environment. Not to mention descriptions of the aspirants (including Mr. Kendall) as self-described "slackers" with expectations of an easy life.

If that's the demographic we're really talking about (rather than a broader one pertaining to loss of job types in a changing technological environment) -- if that's what "aspiration jobs" comes down to -- it's not really representative of the working population (or even of Gen-X) at large. And yeah, those folks are in a bad way -- in part because they clearly never expected adversity or having to respond to it. And all the anecdotes of people I can tell who successfully guided their own lives and work histories, adapting as they went, and changing in response to changing conditions, including the teamsters, just don't count -- because people who flocked to those "gen-x aspiration jobs" just aren't like that.

[robcat2075]

The article isn't claiming that all Gen-Xers work in media jobs or even most of them. In a modern economy there is no single field that most people do. One can always correctly say problem XYZ doesn't affect most people.

The article is about "the many" in creative fields. Even if that is only 1%, those jobs going away is a buge dislocation, more-so because these were careers they dreamed of having, not jobs they settled for. They thought they had their foot on the ladder and now the ladder is gone.

This article is not about all Gen-Xers but offers some first person experiences with a broader Gen-X problem... the technology is changing such that what they do is no longer needed.

That is not new but now it is happening to the Gen-Xers at a most awkward time. This article is about that.

[Digidog]

I maybe should better explain my previous post: What I meant by the changes in the future economic conditions, is that by them I also foresee a return of the demands for practical cultural professions - among other practial dittos.

In a future world where we possibly have to be very careful of what we spend f.ex. elecrical power on, I belive that there will be a new demand for pysical, practical theatre again, because the access to streaming material will be restricted. I believe that cinema theaters will come into more demand, since I see many of my students more preferring an actual venue than huddling at home with a movie stream; they see it as an event and an occasion to go to an actual theatre, where they can see others and be seen by others. Though they cannot themselves formulate it, my interpretation of it is that they hunger for real life social interactions and activities that are something else than sports and competitive activites, and that they to an extent - also unspoken - feel confined and isolated in the digital world and societies they are offered.

If I'm correct, this trend is still faint and not very pronounced, but the change in the economy that will be enforced by declining environmental and climate conditions for sustenance and over all societal needs and functions, may be seen in these by my students clearly outspoken choices and preferences - however unformulated the underlying causes and desires are.